Micromobility (bikeshare, scootershare)

[TravelWise]

The Region and Cities are developing a new implementation plan for bike share, e-scooters/scooter share, etc. 

We thought it might make sense to bring the topics together here in this thread.

First post:

Where should people be allowed to ride e-scooters in Waterloo Region?

The Region of Waterloo and the Cities of Cambridge, Kitchener, and Waterloo want your input on where people should be allowed to ride an e-scooter in our community. Your responses will help inform staff reports to City and Regional Councils on if and where personally-owned e-scooters can be ridden in Waterloo Region, Staff will also consider requirements for e-scooter rental companies (scooter-share) that wish to operate locally. Visit the project page to learn more and provide your input.

https://www.engagewr.ca/e-scooters

[danbrotherston]

The Region and Cities are developing a new implementation plan for bike share, e-scooters/scooter share, etc. 

We thought it might make sense to bring the topics together here in this thread.

First post:

Where should people be allowed to ride e-scooters in Waterloo Region?

The Region of Waterloo and the Cities of Cambridge, Kitchener, and Waterloo want your input on where people should be allowed to ride an e-scooter in our community. Your responses will help inform staff reports to City and Regional Councils on if and where personally-owned e-scooters can be ridden in Waterloo Region, Staff will also consider requirements for e-scooter rental companies (scooter-share) that wish to operate locally. Visit the project page to learn more and provide your input.

https://www.engagewr.ca/e-scooters

Thanks for posting the survey.

I am curious, do you have any insight into why region staff are recommending legislating these differently than bicycles. To me, this seems like an entirely pointless and bizarre decision.

[TravelWise]

The Region and Cities are developing a new implementation plan for bike share, e-scooters/scooter share, etc. 

We thought it might make sense to bring the topics together here in this thread.

First post:

Where should people be allowed to ride e-scooters in Waterloo Region?

The Region of Waterloo and the Cities of Cambridge, Kitchener, and Waterloo want your input on where people should be allowed to ride an e-scooter in our community. Your responses will help inform staff reports to City and Regional Councils on if and where personally-owned e-scooters can be ridden in Waterloo Region, Staff will also consider requirements for e-scooter rental companies (scooter-share) that wish to operate locally. Visit the project page to learn more and provide your input.

https://www.engagewr.ca/e-scooters

Thanks for posting the survey.

I am curious, do you have any insight into why region staff are recommending legislating these differently than bicycles. To me, this seems like an entirely pointless and bizarre decision.

No problem! There are additional details in the documents (particularly the Discussion Paper) provided on the EngageWR site.

If you have additional questions please use the survey or Q&A feature on the EngageWR site.

[dtkvictim]

It's absurd to me that they would acknowledge the dangers of putting a scooter in mixed traffic, and the dangers of being forced to ride in the gutter, but think that it's completely acceptable to put bicycles in that situation. They also state that motorists might not know how to react to a scooter being on the road as though it would be any different than a bike.

Obviously I don't think e-scooters and bicycles should be in mixed traffic unless than observed speed limit is <30km/h, but for roads without infrastructure there isn't much you can do other than letting them ride on the sidewalk. The fact this survey treats e-scooters and bicycles any different from each other shows there isn't any logical consistency in the decision making.

[danbrotherston]

It's absurd to me that they would acknowledge the dangers of putting a scooter in mixed traffic, and the dangers of being forced to ride in the gutter, but think that it's completely acceptable to put bicycles in that situation. They also state that motorists might not know how to react to a scooter being on the road as though it would be any different than a bike.

Obviously I don't think e-scooters and bicycles should be in mixed traffic unless than observed speed limit is <30km/h, but for roads without infrastructure there isn't much you can do other than letting them ride on the sidewalk. The fact this survey treats e-scooters and bicycles any different from each other shows there isn't any logical consistency in the decision making.

This should be a rule for transportation engineers, not for cyclists.

In fact, most rules should be for transportation engineers, not transportation users.

[tomh009]

It's absurd to me that they would acknowledge the dangers of putting a scooter in mixed traffic, and the dangers of being forced to ride in the gutter, but think that it's completely acceptable to put bicycles in that situation. They also state that motorists might not know how to react to a scooter being on the road as though it would be any different than a bike.

One difference between bicyclists in traffic and e-scooter riders in traffic is that there is a good chance that the latter will be far less experienced.

[plam]

It's absurd to me that they would acknowledge the dangers of putting a scooter in mixed traffic, and the dangers of being forced to ride in the gutter, but think that it's completely acceptable to put bicycles in that situation. They also state that motorists might not know how to react to a scooter being on the road as though it would be any different than a bike.

One difference between bicyclists in traffic and e-scooter riders in traffic is that there is a good chance that the latter will be far less experienced.

Empirically yes. But it's also an admission of failure. We should be getting more people new-to-bicycling on the roads/good bicycle infrastructure.

[danbrotherston]

It's absurd to me that they would acknowledge the dangers of putting a scooter in mixed traffic, and the dangers of being forced to ride in the gutter, but think that it's completely acceptable to put bicycles in that situation. They also state that motorists might not know how to react to a scooter being on the road as though it would be any different than a bike.

One difference between bicyclists in traffic and e-scooter riders in traffic is that there is a good chance that the latter will be far less experienced.

Are we certain this is true this year? Many new people are buying bicycles. And many people who are experienced riding bikes may ride scooters.

And what is experience? How long to be "experienced"? I'd argue most people have plenty of experience to understand the mechanics of how riding on the road works (the rules are pretty well known), and the real need for experience is in comfort and confidence, and that varies by rider at least as much as it does by experience.

[tomh009]

One difference between bicyclists in traffic and e-scooter riders in traffic is that there is a good chance that the latter will be far less experienced.

Empirically yes. But it's also an admission of failure. We should be getting more people new-to-bicycling on the roads/good bicycle infrastructure.

I definitely agree. And the grid will be a decent step in that direction -- but much more will be needed yet.

[tomh009]

One difference between bicyclists in traffic and e-scooter riders in traffic is that there is a good chance that the latter will be far less experienced.

Are we certain this is true this year? Many new people are buying bicycles. And many people who are experienced riding bikes may ride scooters.

And what is experience? How long to be "experienced"? I'd argue most people have plenty of experience to understand the mechanics of how riding on the road works (the rules are pretty well known), and the real need for experience is in comfort and confidence, and that varies by rider at least as much as it does by experience.

I have no data. And I don't know where to find any.

But ...

• Commuters will be typically relatively experienced
  
• e-scooters are rather expensive to use for regular commuting
  
• The e-scooter business model encourages ad-hoc trips (maybe little experience)
  
• Many bicyclists have many years of experience, having started as children
  

But, yes, it's only a hypothesis, I have no hard evidence.

Please note I am not defending any particular proposal, but I do tend to agree with their assumption for this particular aspect.

[danbrotherston]

Are we certain this is true this year? Many new people are buying bicycles. And many people who are experienced riding bikes may ride scooters.

And what is experience? How long to be "experienced"? I'd argue most people have plenty of experience to understand the mechanics of how riding on the road works (the rules are pretty well known), and the real need for experience is in comfort and confidence, and that varies by rider at least as much as it does by experience.

I have no data. And I don't know where to find any.

But ...

• Commuters will be typically relatively experienced
  
• e-scooters are rather expensive to use for regular commuting
  
• The e-scooter business model encourages ad-hoc trips (maybe little experience)
  
• Many bicyclists have many years of experience, having started as children
  

But, yes, it's only a hypothesis, I have no hard evidence.

Please note I am not defending any particular proposal, but I do tend to agree with their assumption for this particular aspect.

e-scooters != shared e-scooter companies.

I have no idea of the current breakdown in miles from rentals vs. owned, or what a future breakdown would look like, but it's entirely possible to buy your own scooter.

I am not necessarily disagreeing with your position, or the argument, but I find their arguments entirely uncompelling as justification.

[dtkvictim]

It's absurd to me that they would acknowledge the dangers of putting a scooter in mixed traffic, and the dangers of being forced to ride in the gutter, but think that it's completely acceptable to put bicycles in that situation. They also state that motorists might not know how to react to a scooter being on the road as though it would be any different than a bike.

Obviously I don't think e-scooters and bicycles should be in mixed traffic unless than observed speed limit is <30km/h, but for roads without infrastructure there isn't much you can do other than letting them ride on the sidewalk. The fact this survey treats e-scooters and bicycles any different from each other shows there isn't any logical consistency in the decision making.

This should be a rule for transportation engineers, not for cyclists.

In fact, most rules should be for transportation engineers, not transportation users.

Yes, I was stating it from that perspective. I'm not exactly mad at the e-scooter proposals, I'm just upset that it's acknowledging some truths about all vulnerable road users that don't seem to make it into policy affecting the other vulnerable users.

It's absurd to me that they would acknowledge the dangers of putting a scooter in mixed traffic, and the dangers of being forced to ride in the gutter, but think that it's completely acceptable to put bicycles in that situation. They also state that motorists might not know how to react to a scooter being on the road as though it would be any different than a bike.

One difference between bicyclists in traffic and e-scooter riders in traffic is that there is a good chance that the latter will be far less experienced.

This may be true but I'm not sure it's a valid argument. Just because the proportion of experienced/competent riders to inexperienced riders may be different doesn't mean policy should cater to the lowest common denominator for only one mode of transportation and not the other. Maybe I could be convinced otherwise if you are able to point out other real world analogues where we do this.

[dtkvictim]

I have no data. And I don't know where to find any.

But ...

• Commuters will be typically relatively experienced
  
• e-scooters are rather expensive to use for regular commuting
  
• The e-scooter business model encourages ad-hoc trips (maybe little experience)
  
• Many bicyclists have many years of experience, having started as children
  

But, yes, it's only a hypothesis, I have no hard evidence.

Please note I am not defending any particular proposal, but I do tend to agree with their assumption for this particular aspect.

e-scooters != shared e-scooter companies.

I have no idea of the current breakdown in miles from rentals vs. owned, or what a future breakdown would look like, but it's entirely possible to buy your own scooter.

I am not necessarily disagreeing with your position, or the argument, but I find their arguments entirely uncompelling as justification.

Yeah, the survey in question for primarily about personal scooters. From the survey description:

Your response will inform staff reports to City and Regional Councils on if and where personally-owned e-scooters can be ridden in Waterloo Region. Based on the decision of the respective councils on where e-scooters can go, staff will also consider requirements for e-scooter rental companies (scooter-share) that wish to operate in our community.

[bravado]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...-1.6434075

Reviving this old thread with some news that is somewhat applicable to this discussion.

Region of Waterloo council approved a committee plan Wednesday to allow e-scooters on regional roads with a speed limit of 50 kilometres per hour or less, and on roads with boulevard multi-use paths and reserved bike lanes.

A change has been made to the region's traffic and parking bylaw to allow e-scooters on regional roads as of July 1. The cities of Kitchener, Waterloo and Cambridge, along with the townships, will have to pass their own bylaws if they want to follow suit.

Sounds like the Region is still wrapping their heads around micromobility, and now it's up for each city to make their own wild version of this bylaw.

[LesPio]

E-scooters are now allowed in Waterloo region.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...-1.6499499

E-scooters can now legally zoom through Waterloo region.

As of Friday, the electric vehicles are allowed on select roads and pathways owned by the region and the main urban cities: Kitchener, Cambridge and Waterloo.

The major transportation change, supported by the Ontario Ministry of Transportation, is paving a way for a future rideshare system.