ION Phase 2 - Cambridge's Light Rail Transit

[KevinL]

A lot of elevated in Preston, too. The infrastructure on this phase is impressive.

[jamincan]

I chalk it to lessons learned from phase 1. Long-term compromises for short-term costs likely don't seem nearly so worthwhile now.

[danbrotherston]

I think we've been through this discussion but grade separation != better.

Ultimately, the compromises I find most problematic with Phase 1 have nothing to do with cost, but with prioritizing cars even around LRT stations.

I mean, we have LRT stations which have beg buttons to exit.

Yes, if it was elevated we could avoid that without inconveniencing drivers, but it would be an inconvenience to pedestrians who now have to climb stairs and walk around elevators (not to mention that money could have been spent on something more valuable, like winter sidewalk snow removal). Instead, we should instead just prioritize pedestrians around LRT stations.

The sole exception is Block Line Stations which I've argued should be grade separated as a result of the topography of the area (and others vehemently disagree with this). I think a lot of the elevated sections of Phase 2 are topography related as well, and I fear that the same automobile priority mistakes will be made on the rest of the system.

But at the end of the day, perfect is the enemy of good, and this is still good enough, build it now, fix it later.

[ac3r]

That, but also the topography. Once you get past Fairway Road there are a lot of valleys to deal with. It doesn't really level out again until you're in Preston. The line running through Kitchener and Waterloo has almost no elevation to deal with in comparison. https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4057613,...a=!5m1!1e4

[KevinL]

Well, despite its multiple elevated sections all Phase 2 stations are at ground level. I don't think grade separated stations are really a proper need in our area.

[westwardloo]

I am surprised that they still don't anticipate this being opened until 2032. I know there is still a lot of work to do and probably a few federal and provincial elections, but it feels like a project like this is ripe for post pandemic infrastructure funding. Not to pit one city over another, but if Hamilton continues to fumble their rapid transit aspirations. ION phase 2 could jump the queue.

[danbrotherston]

I am surprised that they still don't anticipate this being opened until 2032. I know there is still a lot of work to do and probably a few federal and provincial elections, but it feels like a project like this is ripe for post pandemic infrastructure funding. Not to pit one city over another, but if Hamilton continues to fumble their rapid transit aspirations. ION phase 2 could jump the queue.

Ultimately, I don't think there's any real timeline here...it's 6+ years after funding comes available.

[dunkalunk]

I don't get why the line is running in the middle of the River road Extension at the speed of traffic instead of between River Rd and the Hidden Valley. Seems like a missed opportunity to run ATC all the way from Fairway to almost Sportsworld station.

[trainspotter139]

I don't get why the line is running in the middle of the River road Extension at the speed of traffic instead of between River Rd and the Hidden Valley. Seems like a missed opportunity to run ATC all the way from Fairway to almost Sportsworld station.

the River Rd. extension is already going through environmentally sensitive land. not putting the LRT in the middle of River Rd. would almost certainly cause even more disruption or destruction of environmentally sensitive land.

[danbrotherston]

I don't get why the line is running in the middle of the River road Extension at the speed of traffic instead of between River Rd and the Hidden Valley. Seems like a missed opportunity to run ATC all the way from Fairway to almost Sportsworld station.

the River Rd. extension is already going through environmentally sensitive land. not putting the LRT in the middle of River Rd. would almost certainly cause even more disruption or destruction of environmentally sensitive land.

Why? It takes exactly the same space. Less depending on river roads land configuration.

[KevinL]

Yes, picture Courtland's side-running arrangement and just copy that over.

[timio]

I'm sure there will be some parts that get tweaked between now and construction. I remember a bunch of changes in design during the last few years of Phase I planning too.

[Bytor]

I don't get why the line is running in the middle of the River road Extension at the speed of traffic instead of between River Rd and the Hidden Valley. Seems like a missed opportunity to run ATC all the way from Fairway to almost Sportsworld station.

Given the realignment of Hidden Valley Rd. and that S-curve it makes to attach to the River Rd. extension squarely, it makes it difficult to go around that and still attach with minimum curve before the start of the next elevated section. It's go to go through an intersection, anyway and the Region and GrandLinq don't seem to like ATC anywhere near intersections¹. I suspect it won't go ATC until it hits that third, long elevated section.

¹My suspicion is that it is because we have a fairly dumb traffic signal control plus emergency priority system around here and that there is simply no way to tie the ATC into it without a significant upgrade at the core. I suspect that along places like King and Charles in Kitchener, it is all done by timings rather than communications.

[trainspotter139]

the River Rd. extension is already going through environmentally sensitive land. not putting the LRT in the middle of River Rd. would almost certainly cause even more disruption or destruction of environmentally sensitive land.

Why? It takes exactly the same space. Less depending on river roads land configuration.

The plans for the River Rd. extension includes a centre median in that area that is wide enough to fit the tracks in without having to do any extensive construction. They are essentially building the road to fit the future LRT doing all but the surface track work so that all they need to do is remove whatever they put as the median and put the tracks in. They are doing the same thing with the King St. rebuild they are planning from the 401 to the Freeport Bridge.

[danbrotherston]

Why? It takes exactly the same space. Less depending on river roads land configuration.

The plans for the River Rd. extension includes a centre median in that area that is wide enough to fit the tracks in without having to do any extensive construction. They are essentially building the road to fit the future LRT doing all but the surface track work so that all they need to do is remove whatever they put as the median and put the tracks in. They are doing the same thing with the King St. rebuild they are planning from the 401 to the Freeport Bridge.

That's a choice, they could make a different choice, the road does not need a median wide enough for two LRT tracks, and I'm not certain if the road is 2 lanes or 4 (I hope 2), but a two lane road with a median is about 3 meters wider (IN ADDITION to the width of the median) than a 2 lane road without a median because the region and city road standards require 4.5+ meters curb to curb distance.

Also, I didn't think the LRT was going down King, and they weren't rebuilding the King St. bridge in the current plan, it was just going to follow 8. They may still be rebuilding it with a wasteful and unnecessary median...the region loves wasting money on roads.