The "Pittsburgh Left"

[Canard]

Wikipedia: Pittsburgh left

A term I was not familiar with, but an occurrence that, as a seasoned motorist, I am all too familiar with.

In The Region, I specifically note the partially-signaled intersection of Albert and Seagram in Waterloo guarantees this happens almost every light cycle; the span between stop bars on Albert is so broad (particularly the location of the southbound Albert stop bar) that it encourages this behaviour.

[plam]

Wikipedia:  Pittsburgh left

A term I was not familiar with, but an occurrence that, as a seasoned motorist, I am all too familiar with.

In The Region, I specifically note the partially-signaled intersection of Albert and Seagram in Waterloo guarantees this happens almost every light cycle; the span between stop bars on Albert is so broad (particularly the location of the southbound Albert stop bar) that it encourages this behaviour.

Yeah. I had gotten used to it in Boston somehow (despite not driving there much) and forgot that it wasn't a thing when I tried it in Montreal. I remembered quickly.

[Markster]

Huh, come to think of it, I have seen that happen at Albert/Seagram.  Definitely thought the driver was crazy.

It reminds me of a similar, but different, practice in New Zealand.  On 2-lane highways, "left" turning (actually right-turning, but I'm swapping for driving on the right) has priority over straight through traffic. It keeps traffic from getting stuck trying to turn left off the highway while waiting for an endless stream of straight through traffic. This is a rule codified in law.

[panamaniac]

edit :

[Drake]

In Ontario we call that stunt driving. The huge fine and the 7 day vehicle impoundment makes it a pretty unappealing thing to do. OREG 455/07 section 3 (8)(iv).

[panamaniac]

But then there's never a cop around....

[JoeKW]

Albert/Seagram desperately needs a protected left. There are times when no one can make a left turn for multiple cycles.

[mpd618]

This happens at Victoria and Strange, which is a ridiculously sized intersection due mostly to the angle. Cars turning left from Strange onto northbound Victoria will do a Pittsburgh left.

[kaiserdiver]

This happens at Victoria and Strange, which is a ridiculously sized intersection due mostly to the angle. Cars turning left from Strange onto northbound Victoria will do a Pittsburgh left.

I'm always surprised there aren't more accidents at that corner. Lots of very late yellows and running reds as cars from either direction on Victoria cross the long distance to the other side. Turning left off Victoria in either direction also can be interesting if someone is turning left from the opposite direction - it's hard to get a sense of how far into the intersection you should advance as you wait for the way to clear, and often the left-turner opposite you has advanced too far.

[mpd618]

I'm always surprised there aren't more accidents at that corner. Lots of very late yellows and running reds as cars from either direction on Victoria cross the long distance to the other side. Turning left off Victoria in either direction also can be interesting if someone is turning left from the opposite direction - it's hard to get a sense of how far into the intersection you should advance as you wait for the way to clear, and often the left-turner opposite you has advanced too far.

If there were more people walking there, there would be more collisions. Cars turning left from Victoria Street onto West at 50+ km/h are a huge danger to people legally crossing in the crosswalk.

[MidTowner]

I remember my father telling me that, in Phoenix, he had been advised in the southwest "never to brake on yellow, or go on green." Evidently, stopping for even a very late yellow is liable to get you rear-ended by a motorist; and moving forward as soon as the light turns green, you're likely to find the oncoming left-turner already in the intersection.

This is a crummy practice anywhere where it's not widely understood. In the wikipedia article, it suggests that most drivers in some areas are familiar with it, and communicate permission/request. Not the case when it happens in Ontario: it's usually not communicated, and leaves the oncoming driver annoyed. Also, I wonder how a motorist is able to effectively spot people crossing in the crosswalk, and give them their right of way, all while trying to illegally perform a left-turn in front of oncoming traffic that likewise has the right of way.

[Viewfromthe42]

The key difference here is that at Seagram, it is not a full intersection but a crosswalk that is signalized. I am curious what the standard is. I know that when I am traveling south on King by WLU, when the second crosswalk goes red for vehicular traffic, I am not stopped from turning left onto Lodge. In Seagram's case, the crosswalk is much closer to Seagram, but it is still a crosswalk light, not one that can be activated/used from the south side of Seagram, and not one that can be activated by cars turning left from Seagram to Albert. Is it not then the case that cars turning left from Albert onto Seagram can, seeing a red at the crosswalk on the other side of the intersection, turn left onto Seagram if no pedestrians are in the crosswalk crossing Seagram on the west side of Albert?

[jamincan]

There is a similar situation at Roslin and Erb. There is a stop sign on Roslin, and Erb is free-flowing except for the crosswalk on the west side of the intersection. It's not clear to me: A. is traffic turning south onto Roslin from westbound Erb supposed to stop, and B. is traffic on Roslin turning onto Erb in either direction supposed to stop (provide the way is clear). I imagine in the case of B, you should stop, though technically there is no stop signal for traffic on Roslin, just a stop sign which requires waiting until the way is clear.