50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed

[panamaniac]

I mean it is real enough for Grand River Rocks to be moving in a couple months. (Hopefully they aren't moving to the outskirts of town) I would guess that it won't be the full 57 flrs, but that something around the 40-45 flrs is likely. Still tall for the region. The area around Borden station is one of the best areas in the region suited for intensification. Mostly surrounded by industrial buildings so there won't be much NIMBY push back. I just hope the City of Kitchener holds developers to their PARTS masterplan for the neighbourhood including the addition grid street layout to breakup the block sizes and an area dedicated for a decent sized urban park.

Big emphasis on making space for more parkland. Density is what it is and best at these nodes but we will regret letting more of the city get to the shortage of green space downtown when there is the chance to force securing it now.

IMO, the City should have started acquiring properties years ago in the the block that B&T is currently in.  It could have become a first rate public square.  Too late now, unfortunately.p

[plam]

They are planning for over 7000 sq meters of commerical/institutional space, the current GRR and Go Bananas space is only 2000 sq meters, so maybe they get to stay just in the podium of the new building. But I really hope they can stay because its a really great place.

Edit: it's confirmed that Grand River Rocks is moving from their current location to a new location around the beginning of June.

GRR Kitchener isn't moving in June, they're just announcing the new location on June 1st. The move will be in 2024 and they've hinted that the new location will still be close to downtown on their instagram.

https://grandriverrocks.com/uncategorize...tion-news/

Yep. I'd mentioned to them a few years ago that they were likely going to be forced to move sooner or later. Their Waterloo location is not in the boonies, so that's a good sign. (Actually it's way closer to me than the Kitchener location, but I'm not so keen on bouldering).

Several of the questions on the Instagram asked about close to transit and they said yes, though it's hard to imagine being closer than right now.

[ac3r]

Ah so this project finally went public I see.

This one should get approved as is. Additionally, it's by Vive Development (I mean...who else?), so the proposal is not intended to facilitate property sale or anything and is a genuine project being planned. As this is in the Rockway PARTS area as well, it should not face any real opposition either. If approved as is, then Tower 01 will be the tallest in Waterloo Region at 183.1 meters (for reference, here's what a 183.2 meter building looks like from the ground). In fact, it'd be the tallest skyscraper in Ontario outside of the Greater Toronto Area and the 56th tallest in Canada.

From what I know of the potential materials, it should look like a pretty good tower. I don't think we'll see it start construction for a long time, though. Vive has 9 other projects in the pipeline as well as a couple under construction and they are not rushing things. I'm sure by the time it gets under construction, it will no longer be the largest project but it can hold that crown for a while anyway (sorry VanMar).

[tomh009]

Edge Architects? How good are they?

   

[ac3r]

They're okay. They're a fairly small local firm, which is probably why Vive went with them as they are really into working for and with the residents of this region.

Their biggest project in the region was the Glove Box - both the preservation of the original factory building and the 6 floor office building (so NOT the ugly towers that ABA Architects did behind the office). They also did the YW Transitional/Supportive Housing project in Waterloo which is mostly built out of wood. They've also done some residential stuff, namely modular homes, with a couple that have gone up locally. The earliest projects were mostly medical offices...extremely generic medical offices. In addition, they've got a strong portfolio of designs completed, but which have not been constructed yet.

They have some talent working for them but the firm itself has basically no experience designing skyscrapers so I guess we'd have to see how well it is in reality. If this was a design I was doing or leading it, I would have made the towers themselves more visually interesting because it's not a hard thing to achieve. Page 3 and 4 of the site plan document has many examples of other buildings that they used as inspiration/comparison but they didn't use any of it on the towers, just the podium.

We'll have to see how it evolves, I guess. Edge really like wood and glass and much of this project will use that from what I've been told. But yeah...I usually hate when a skyscraper is just 40 to 60+ floors of the exact same thing so I kind of wish they played with the geometry of the tower some more so it isn't just two giant pillars with each floor looking the exact same. That could change, though, depending on what Vive wishes to do.

[Lens]

Vive working for and with the residents of this region? That's rich! One of the absolute worst renoviction culprits in town. Ruthless. Ask any of the hundreds of folks they've forced out of their homes how they feel.

[nms]

Asking for a random bit of trivia: If you factor in the rise of the Escarpment, if this building is the tallest outside of the GTA, where would the top of this building sit relative to the top of the CN tower or some of the taller buildings in Toronto?

[cherrypark]

Asking for a random bit of trivia: If you factor in the rise of the Escarpment, if this building is the tallest outside of the GTA, where would the top of this building sit relative to the top of the CN tower or some of the taller buildings in Toronto?

+225m roughly from Toronto Lakeshore to Kitchener typical.

CN Tower is 553m high, the upper "SkyPod" deck is 446m. This building being 183m means it tops out between the main deck and the upper deck of the CN tower.

For reference nothing existing in Toronto placed in Kitchener would equal the CN Tower. You would need to move The One here after its done construction (94 stories).

[KevinL]

I can't figure out who wants 75,000 sq ft of institutional space, I can't imagine they're building it on spec.

It's definitely an odd little bit of the whole setup, agreed. Four and a half floors on the north side of the podium.

[tomh009]

I can't figure out who wants 75,000 sq ft of institutional space, I can't imagine they're building it on spec.

It's definitely an odd little bit of the whole setup, agreed. Four and a half floors on the north side of the podium.

Arts? Education? Library branch? Community centre? (There is not one nearby, really, but a lot of new housing is being built in this area.) They definitely would not be proposing that much space without some kind of a plan.

[KaiserWilhelmsBust]

They're okay. They're a fairly small local firm, which is probably why Vive went with them as they are really into working for and with the residents of this region.

Their biggest project in the region was the Glove Box - both the preservation of the original factory building and the 6 floor office building (so NOT the ugly towers that ABA Architects did behind the office). They also did the YW Transitional/Supportive Housing project in Waterloo which is mostly built out of wood. They've also done some residential stuff, namely modular homes, with a couple that have gone up locally. The earliest projects were mostly medical offices...extremely generic medical offices. In addition, they've got a strong portfolio of designs completed, but which have not been constructed yet.

They have some talent working for them but the firm itself has basically no experience designing skyscrapers so I guess we'd have to see how well it is in reality. If this was a design I was doing or leading it, I would have made the towers themselves more visually interesting because it's not a hard thing to achieve. Page 3 and 4 of the site plan document has many examples of other buildings that they used as inspiration/comparison but they didn't use any of it on the towers, just the podium.

We'll have to see how it evolves, I guess. Edge really like wood and glass and much of this project will use that from what I've been told. But yeah...I usually hate when a skyscraper is just 40 to 60+ floors of the exact same thing so I kind of wish they played with the geometry of the tower some more so it isn't just two giant pillars with each floor looking the exact same. That could change, though, depending on what Vive wishes to do.

Are you saying Vive is "really into working for and with the residents of this region?" because that is absurd. They're responsible for countless renovictions, paying low-rent tenants criminally low amounts to vacate, and perhaps worse of all, sitting on huge vacancy in new buildings because their ultra high net worth funders would rather take 5 years to lease than have to lower rent at all

[Citizen1234]

Vive is definitely in bed with someone at the City or the Planner.
Part of the planning package asks that Shadow Studies and Noise Studies, but what do the studies mean when the shadows extend for multiple neighbourhoods and the noise studies clearly show they are exceeding the limits that the City has set.  The Planners and City Staff need to make sure the Developers are staying with in the rules that have been set.  But it seems, that the City is just bending over and taking it 'cause the Federal government has made plans, without planning how they expect cities to get it done within their strategic plans.  If i wanted to live in a concrete jungle with thousands of people around me, and pay ridiculous amounts of rent, I would have moved to Toronto years ago.

[taylortbb]

Are you saying Vive is "really into working for and with the residents of this region?"

I'm pretty sure that was about Edge Architects.

That said, with the number of projects Vive has on the go, I really don't think they'll be willing to sit on many thousands of empty units for years. Their contributions to rental supply are going to be significant for the local rental market.

I've had the same feeling about all of Litt's various development ventures. Sometimes they break the rules in shitty ways, but sometimes they break the rules that need to be broken. They are shitty about the rennovictions, but they're also the developer that's most pushed the city on relaxing parking minimums.

[tomh009]

The Planners and City Staff need to make sure the Developers are staying with in the rules that have been set.  But it seems, that the City is just bending over and taking it 'cause the Federal government has made plans, without planning how they expect cities to get it done within their strategic plans. 

I think you really mean the provincial government here, as housing is a provincial responsibility and the various intensification and construction initiatives are driven by the province, not the federal government.

[Bjays93]

I can't figure out who wants 75,000 sq ft of institutional space, I can't imagine they're building it on spec.

Also, looking through the OPA/ZBA packages I'm really wondering about the number of elevators. It shows 3 per tower, which means about 200 units per elevator. 100 units per elevator seems like the standard for other buildings, so I'm wondering if they're fast elevators or if everyone is going to be waiting a long time.

Gotta agree with the elevator concerns here. Bring on the height but 3 per building is not enough. You need a minimum of 5 if not 6 per building at this height.