Road design, safety and Vision Zero

[danbrotherston]

Absolutely nobody thinks this is okay or that it's "radical" to state as such.

Lots of people think it’s fine to keep building roads the way we do, and to de-fund the downtown cycling (former) grid.

Even more, ac3r is wrong. Many people absolutely consider the massive harms driving cause to be an acceptable price to pay for what they feel is necessary for daily life. Now of course, lots of folks, including some here don’t believe they can have mobility without car dependency.

[ac3r]

People who possess reasoning skills do indeed come to the logical conclusion that many of the things we do in life can cause massive harm to many things and many people.

Our roads suck indeed and must be improved so they are safer and more efficient. At least some of us are sticking it out despite the mediocrity and working to improve things in our community, rather than hopping on the first passenger jet and running away to the other side of the planet.

[Acitta]

People who possess reasoning skills do indeed come to the logical conclusion that many of the things we do in life can cause massive harm to many things and many people.

Our roads suck indeed and must be improved so they are safer and more efficient. At least some of us are sticking it out despite the mediocrity and working to improve things in our community, rather than hopping on the first passenger jet and running away to the other side of the planet.

Some of us can't afford to run away to the other side of the planet, even if we wanted to. Anyhow, I think that Waterloo Region is better than many other regions of the country regarding alternative transportation and pedestrian safety. Progress is being made, even if it is not as fast as we would like.

[danbrotherston]

People who possess reasoning skills do indeed come to the logical conclusion that many of the things we do in life can cause massive harm to many things and many people.

Our roads suck indeed and must be improved so they are safer and more efficient. At least some of us are sticking it out despite the mediocrity and working to improve things in our community, rather than hopping on the first passenger jet and running away to the other side of the planet.

Some of us can't afford to run away to the other side of the planet, even if we wanted to. Anyhow, I think that Waterloo Region is better than many other regions of the country regarding alternative transportation and pedestrian safety. Progress is being made, even if it is not as fast as we would like,

Certainly being able to leave is a privilege. But I stayed and fought for more than a decade. I have the scars--literal and figurative--to prove it. Waterloo Region is better than some, but it's by far not the best in Canada. We considered staying in Canada. Victoria, Vancouver, Montreal, even Ottawa were options. But with the exception of Montreal, they're all still fairly mediocre. Even if I can afford to live in the best places in those cities we're still going to be surrounded by mediocrity.

Framing it as "running away" is hurtful (from you Acitta specifically), but not necessarily incorrect. That being said, it is correct that it was the ONLY way to live in a place that has relatively high traffic safety and comfortable biking...and now that I have a little one, I'm no longer willing to be a freedom fighter.

As for progress...I've been through this many times. No...we aren't making progress. We are building car dependent sprawl much faster than we are fixing the shit we've built. At best, we are making our cities worse, more slowly than before. But until the culture changes...to see automobiles as, at best, a necessary evil that we should seek to minimize, I don't really see that changing.

[Acitta]

Some of us can't afford to run away to the other side of the planet, even if we wanted to. Anyhow, I think that Waterloo Region is better than many other regions of the country regarding alternative transportation and pedestrian safety. Progress is being made, even if it is not as fast as we would like,

Certainly being able to leave is a privilege. But I stayed and fought for more than a decade. I have the scars--literal and figurative--to prove it. Waterloo Region is better than some, but it's by far not the best in Canada. We considered staying in Canada. Victoria, Vancouver, Montreal, even Ottawa were options. But with the exception of Montreal, they're all still fairly mediocre. Even if I can afford to live in the best places in those cities we're still going to be surrounded by mediocrity.

Framing it as "running away" is hurtful (from you Acitta specifically), but not necessarily incorrect. That being said, it is correct that it was the ONLY way to live in a place that has relatively high traffic safety and comfortable biking...and now that I have a little one, I'm no longer willing to be a freedom fighter.

As for progress...I've been through this many times. No...we aren't making progress. We are building car dependent sprawl much faster than we are fixing the shit we've built. At best, we are making our cities worse, more slowly than before. But until the culture changes...to see automobiles as, at best, a necessary evil that we should seek to minimize, I don't really see that changing.

When using the term "running away", I was quoting. I didn't mean it as an insult. There are many places in the world I might like to live in, but if I actually moved to any of them, I would lose my OAS and be plunged into destitution, since the OLG refuses to come through with their promised millions.

[danbrotherston]

Certainly being able to leave is a privilege. But I stayed and fought for more than a decade. I have the scars--literal and figurative--to prove it. Waterloo Region is better than some, but it's by far not the best in Canada. We considered staying in Canada. Victoria, Vancouver, Montreal, even Ottawa were options. But with the exception of Montreal, they're all still fairly mediocre. Even if I can afford to live in the best places in those cities we're still going to be surrounded by mediocrity.

Framing it as "running away" is hurtful (from you Acitta specifically), but not necessarily incorrect. That being said, it is correct that it was the ONLY way to live in a place that has relatively high traffic safety and comfortable biking...and now that I have a little one, I'm no longer willing to be a freedom fighter.

As for progress...I've been through this many times. No...we aren't making progress. We are building car dependent sprawl much faster than we are fixing the shit we've built. At best, we are making our cities worse, more slowly than before. But until the culture changes...to see automobiles as, at best, a necessary evil that we should seek to minimize, I don't really see that changing.

When using the term "running away", I was quoting. I didn't mean it as an insult. There are many places in the world I might like to live in, but if I actually moved to any of them, I would lose my OAS and be plunged into destitution, since the OLG refuses to come through with their promised millions.

Fair enough ...

Yeah, there are many reasons why people won't be able to move...I fully acknowledge my privilege here...and even for me, it was challenging.

Best of luck with the OLG planning...weirdly, the Lottery here literally canvases door to door trying to get people to participate...very weird.

[ac3r]

Anyhow, I think that Waterloo Region is better than many other regions of the country regarding alternative transportation and pedestrian safety. Progress is being made, even if it is not as fast as we would like.

We are certainly making progress indeed. As much as I dunk on this region in regards to basically everything...I do see the changes happening every single day. They might happen slowly, may not all make sense or are outright bad, they might be pointless or insufficient but it's certainly progress nonetheless. If we want a nice region, it's up to us to create it. Nobody waved a magic wand and immediately turned Amsterdam, Barcelona, Chongqing, Osaka, Buenos Aires etc into the world class cities they are. It took centuries of time, millions of people, billions of dollars and the courage to actually seek and create the things they sought. It took a lot of failure to achieve the successes such cities now possess. Or even ours. 30 years ago, who would have thought that we'd have one of the worlds best physics schools or a company like Google being based here?

Great cities are built by those who are born in them or migrate to them, who stick it out through the challenges with the hope that their contributions will achieve something. These are the sort of people we name roads and schools after, who have buildings they designed being lived and worked in, who have built beautiful parks...any sort of real, tangible thing that people use and benefit from. In contrast, the entitled and selfish individuals who expect the world to bend to their personal desires - who will flip the table upside down and storm right out if they don't get what they want - have contributed exactly nothing. I mean look at cities in Indiana and Michigan to our south. We see a city like Detroit seeing a major, much deserved renaissance after decades of failure. It's the people who stuck around despite the extreme violence, awful infrastructure, economic despair and entire city blocks being abandoned who get the credit for the changes now happening. Not the privileged, white middle class that packed their bags and left somewhere more comfortable the first chance they got.

[nms]

Anyhow, I think that Waterloo Region is better than many other regions of the country regarding alternative transportation and pedestrian safety. Progress is being made, even if it is not as fast as we would like.

We are certainly making progress indeed. As much as I dunk on this region in regards to basically everything...I do see the changes happening every single day. They might happen slowly, may not all make sense or are outright bad, they might be pointless or insufficient but it's certainly progress nonetheless. If we want a nice region, it's up to us to create it. Nobody waved a magic wand and immediately turned Amsterdam, Barcelona, Chongqing, Osaka, Buenos Aires etc into the world class cities they are. It took centuries of time, millions of people, billions of dollars and the courage to actually seek and create the things they sought. It took a lot of failure to achieve the successes such cities now possess. Or even ours. 30 years ago, who would have thought that we'd have one of the worlds best physics schools or a company like Google being based here?

Great cities are built by those who are born in them or migrate to them, who stick it out through the challenges with the hope that their contributions will achieve something. These are the sort of people we name roads and schools after, who have buildings they designed being lived and worked in, who have built beautiful parks...any sort of real, tangible thing that people use and benefit from. In contrast, the entitled and selfish individuals who expect the world to bend to their personal desires - who will flip the table upside down and storm right out if they don't get what they want - have contributed exactly nothing. I mean look at cities in Indiana and Michigan to our south. We see a city like Detroit seeing a major, much deserved renaissance after decades of failure. It's the people who stuck around despite the extreme violence, awful infrastructure, economic despair and entire city blocks being abandoned who get the credit for the changes now happening. Not the privileged, white middle class that packed their bags and left somewhere more comfortable the first chance they got.

This is something that resonates with me.  Every generation of my family involves someone who moved to the area marrying someone who was already here and staying to raise the next generation.  Together, each generation has done its best (for better or for worse) to make the Region a better place without sweeping away everything that was here first.  To bring this point back, even tangentially, to road safety (or at least people moving from point A to point B), it was previous generations who created things that are still giving benefits today including (but not limited to):
- The Iron Horse Trail/Laurel Trail (circa 1997)
- Getting the Trans Canada Trail routed through the Region (circa 1992)
- The Grand Valley Trails system (circa 1973) (includes the Walter Bean Trail)

And on the topic of road safety specifically, there was Frank "The Bridgeport General" Groff (circa 1960s), the unofficial crossing guard in Bridgeport before and after Bridgeport was annexed by the City of Kitchener.

[danbrotherston]

We are certainly making progress indeed. As much as I dunk on this region in regards to basically everything...I do see the changes happening every single day. They might happen slowly, may not all make sense or are outright bad, they might be pointless or insufficient but it's certainly progress nonetheless. If we want a nice region, it's up to us to create it. Nobody waved a magic wand and immediately turned Amsterdam, Barcelona, Chongqing, Osaka, Buenos Aires etc into the world class cities they are. It took centuries of time, millions of people, billions of dollars and the courage to actually seek and create the things they sought. It took a lot of failure to achieve the successes such cities now possess. Or even ours. 30 years ago, who would have thought that we'd have one of the worlds best physics schools or a company like Google being based here?

Great cities are built by those who are born in them or migrate to them, who stick it out through the challenges with the hope that their contributions will achieve something. These are the sort of people we name roads and schools after, who have buildings they designed being lived and worked in, who have built beautiful parks...any sort of real, tangible thing that people use and benefit from. In contrast, the entitled and selfish individuals who expect the world to bend to their personal desires - who will flip the table upside down and storm right out if they don't get what they want - have contributed exactly nothing. I mean look at cities in Indiana and Michigan to our south. We see a city like Detroit seeing a major, much deserved renaissance after decades of failure. It's the people who stuck around despite the extreme violence, awful infrastructure, economic despair and entire city blocks being abandoned who get the credit for the changes now happening. Not the privileged, white middle class that packed their bags and left somewhere more comfortable the first chance they got.

This is something that resonates with me.  Every generation of my family involves someone who moved to the area marrying someone who was already here and staying to raise the next generation.  Together, each generation has done its best (for better or for worse) to make the Region a better place without sweeping away everything that was here first.  To bring this point back, even tangentially, to road safety (or at least people moving from point A to point B), it was previous generations who created things that are still giving benefits today including (but not limited to):
- The Iron Horse Trail/Laurel Trail (circa 1997)
- Getting the Trans Canada Trail routed through the Region (circa 1992)
- The Grand Valley Trails system (circa 1973) (includes the Walter Bean Trail)

And on the topic of road safety specifically, there was Frank "The Bridgeport General" Groff (circa 1960s), the unofficial crossing guard in Bridgeport before and after Bridgeport was annexed by the City of Kitchener.

If a personal attack resonates with you, that's your business, but ac3r's comment is clearly directed at me, and explicitly calls me selfish and entitled, and accuses me of contributing nothing. Frankly, I'm done with this, I've blocked that individual, but they keep engaging with me here, and you folks keep quoting them, so I keep seeing it.

[ac3r]

If a personal attack resonates with you, that's your business, but ac3r's comment is clearly directed at me, and explicitly calls me selfish and entitled, and accuses me of contributing nothing. Frankly, I'm done with this, I've blocked that individual, but they keep engaging with me here, and you folks keep quoting them, so I keep seeing it.

(Removed by mod edit.) You hate automobiles...alright. Nobody cares. 99.9% of the planet understands that they're cool as hell, we want them and we need the things that make them. Even if they are annoying and/or dangerous. You wouldn't be riding your bike if it weren't for automobiles, trains and a ton of toxic emissions. Oh...the oil, too.

Maybe focus on the Netherlands, perhaps. Oh wait, most Dutch are actually pretty damn conservative. Haha. They love cars. They just figured out how to live with both without sounding like absolute REEEEEE dorks.

Edited 2024-03-21. Please refrain from personal attacks.

[nms]

Just to be clear, this was the part that resonated with me:

"Great cities are built by those who are born in them or migrate to them, who stick it out through the challenges with the hope that their contributions will achieve something."

And sometimes those who are born in place or have migrated there decide that that community is not for them and they head elsewhere to make contributions there.

[bravado]

https://www.wrps.on.ca/en/news/wrps-traf...erloo.aspx

9 year old boy hit by a driver in front of a Waterloo school and airlifted with serious injuries.

I look forward to the totally rational responses from the usual crowd about how speed limits and raised crosswalks and cameras are the next police state. Anything (including maimed children) to keep from slowing down and not being a cunt.

[danbrotherston]

https://www.wrps.on.ca/en/news/wrps-traf...erloo.aspx

9 year old boy hit by a driver in front of a Waterloo school and airlifted with serious injuries.

I look forward to the totally rational responses from the usual crowd about how speed limits and raised crosswalks and cameras are the next police state. Anything (including maimed children) to keep from slowing down and not being a cunt.

The driver...who was also a child...did not sustain any "physical" injuries...

JFC....our society is psychotic.

[bravado]

https://www.wrps.on.ca/en/news/waterloo-...hener.aspx

Another seriously injured pedestrian on a regional road. Vision Zero seems to be going quite well?

[ac3r]

Vision Zero Fucks Given to the state of our dangerous roads.