ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[trainspotter139]

I half-heartedly tried to google this but I couldn't find an answer:

Do we know how reliable our Flexity Freedom trams have been?

They weren't properly finished and had a to have a bunch of work done to enable ATC and things, but that's not reliability. Neither is car drivers turning in their paths. The frame welding issue doesn't make them, less reliable now, only 10+ years in the future.

Have there been any news reports on tram reliability?

I've not seen any reports.

But we don't have a lot of spares, if they had reliability issues, we'd be seeing service issues.

From this article in the Record:

The Bombardier trains are proving to be very reliable, Galloway said, unlike the LRT system in Ottawa, which uses cars built by French builder Alstom, and which has been plagued with delays and problems, prompting a provincial inquiry.

[ac3r]

That feel when, going forward, everything Bombardier will just be rebranded Alstom equipment. For what it's worth, though, Alstom does make good stuff, from high speed rail EMU/DMUs to subway cars to light rail vehicles. For whatever reason, the Citadis Spirit LRVs were just poorly designed, which is odd, because Citadis streetcars are used all over the world so the technology isn't all that different.

[mgregorasz]

The same way they do it in DTK. Tractors with blowers and a dump truck following them.

In heavy snow fall pull out the secondary plan book which moves priorities around. It tells the snowplow operators to not cover that stretch of Ottawa street, and takes one of the tractor/dump truck teams from DTK to clear that stretch of Ottawa St. When done, they go back to DTK. No extra equipment needed, just a rejigging of priorities.

Yes, more snow than usual causes problems, but it can still be planned for and to not do so is, to put it bluntly, incompetence.

This problem though would appear to be a regional or GRT/Grandlinq issue, not City of Kitchener. I'm not even sure if the city would be allowed to do snow removal on those tracts.

Either way, hopefully something was learned from this snow event.

From what I've read in the maintenance agreement that Kitchener has with the Region, Kitchener is responsible for removing the windrows from adjacent LRT tracks.

[mgregorasz]

Maybe the City/Region should invest in a couple of wing plow trailers for the single track sections ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No. Just make better plans.

For example, when weather warning like this come out switch do a different set of priorities. Normally a bit of snow dumped on an LRT track by a snowplow doesn't matter because rail vehicles can handle snow better than rubber-tired road vehicles, but there is still such a thing as "too much".

When the warnings come out, put away the "Regular Snowfall Plan" book and get out the "Heavy Snowfall Plan" book.

First, add a refinement to the three priority tiers of when roads get cleared that now the drivers must stick to predefined routes which leaves off the side of Ottawa St. where the tracks are so nobody plows too much snow onto the tracks that would get the trams stuck. Humans make mistakes and somebody might forget because they are used to a plowing routine, so instead of blaming them we give them the tools they need to not make a mistake. In this case, a GPS device and a predefined route around their sector that omits the part that needs special/different care.

Second, take one of the tractor+blower & dump truck pairs off of DTK duty and send it down to clear that part of Ottawa St. When done it can head back to help in DTK. Send it back to Ottawa St. as often as a snowplow would go through.

Voila, alternate plan for snowfall that doesn't require more equipment.

Municipalities should have alternate plans made up for these occasional "once in 20 year" events, and to not have them is simply incompetence.

I'm willing to bet that the "Heavy Snowfall Plan" would look exactly the same as the "Regular Snowfall Plan". There is no need for municipalities to have multiple snow removal plans for different type of storms when the only thing that changes is the amount of snow that needs to be cleared. In the case of the part of Ottawa St. that has the adjacent LRT track, Kitchener could either:
A) Get the plow operators that run that route to go as slow as possible (without getting stuck) so that the windrow doesn't get spread all over the tracks
or
B) Have a 4 x4 pickup truck with a plow run down the LRT tracks right behind the road plow to push snow back towards the windrow and tighten it up.

[jeffster]

This problem though would appear to be a regional or GRT/Grandlinq issue, not City of Kitchener. I'm not even sure if the city would be allowed to do snow removal on those tracts.

Either way, hopefully something was learned from this snow event.

From what I've read in the maintenance agreement that Kitchener has with the Region, Kitchener is responsible for removing the windrows from adjacent LRT tracks.

That's good to know. That said, one of the vehicles that I saw stuck wasn't a result of plowing roads, there was simply too much snow on the track, and it looked like it was never cleared at all (Kitchener Market Station).

Good think we don't get a lot of large dumps around her. Not like it used to be around here anyway.

[jeffster]

No. Just make better plans.

For example, when weather warning like this come out switch do a different set of priorities. Normally a bit of snow dumped on an LRT track by a snowplow doesn't matter because rail vehicles can handle snow better than rubber-tired road vehicles, but there is still such a thing as "too much".

When the warnings come out, put away the "Regular Snowfall Plan" book and get out the "Heavy Snowfall Plan" book.

First, add a refinement to the three priority tiers of when roads get cleared that now the drivers must stick to predefined routes which leaves off the side of Ottawa St. where the tracks are so nobody plows too much snow onto the tracks that would get the trams stuck. Humans make mistakes and somebody might forget because they are used to a plowing routine, so instead of blaming them we give them the tools they need to not make a mistake. In this case, a GPS device and a predefined route around their sector that omits the part that needs special/different care.

Second, take one of the tractor+blower & dump truck pairs off of DTK duty and send it down to clear that part of Ottawa St. When done it can head back to help in DTK. Send it back to Ottawa St. as often as a snowplow would go through.

Voila, alternate plan for snowfall that doesn't require more equipment.

Municipalities should have alternate plans made up for these occasional "once in 20 year" events, and to not have them is simply incompetence.

I'm willing to bet that the "Heavy Snowfall Plan" would look exactly the same as the "Regular Snowfall Plan". There is no need for municipalities to have multiple snow removal plans for different type of storms when the only thing that changes is the amount of snow that needs to be cleared. In the case of the part of Ottawa St. that has the adjacent LRT track, Kitchener could either:
A) Get the plow operators that run that route to go as slow as possible (without getting stuck) so that the windrow doesn't get spread all over the tracks
or
B) Have a 4 x4 pickup truck with a plow run down the LRT tracks right behind the road plow to push snow back towards the windrow and tighten it up.

I actually thought that this is what they had. You could have 2 4x4 Ford F350's running down the tracks to clear it (maybe 30 minutes to do so?). Unsure if they could be given priority like the LRT, if the technology is there. Then also, they could act as a lead throughout the day, until things are cleared enough for the trains to operator on their own.

[clasher]

Just couple one of these plows to the front of the train:


The Grand River Railway had a very similar plow they used way back in the day but I can't find the old site that had all the specific GRR pics on it.

[ijmorlan]

I'm willing to bet that the "Heavy Snowfall Plan" would look exactly the same as the "Regular Snowfall Plan". There is no need for municipalities to have multiple snow removal plans for different type of storms when the only thing that changes is the amount of snow that needs to be cleared.

Actually I can see the amount of snow making a significant difference. If it’s very heavy, you need to be removing it from some areas entirely because there is just too much all in one place. If it’s medium, this isn’t needed. If it’s very light, you might not even need to do anything on roads because the action of cars will just melt it in place; and sidewalks might be better done with brushes than with shovels in this condition. You also need to consider how long it takes; while small differences in amount of snow won’t change this (the snow removal equipment just drives around the city in the same pattern), at some point increasing snow is going to slow the process down.

[KevinL]

Good think we don't get a lot of large dumps around her. Not like it used to be around here anyway.

If we did regularly get heavy snow, though, I imagine we would be better prepared. It's because Monday's dump was a one-off, that it threw everything out of whack.

[Bytor]

Good think we don't get a lot of large dumps around her. Not like it used to be around here anyway.

If we did regularly get heavy snow, though, I imagine we would be better prepared. It's because Monday's dump was a one-off, that it threw everything out of whack.

It wasn't a "one off", though, that will never happen again. It is being called a "once in 20 years" event, but that is still something that municipalities should be planning for. Not by buying extra equipment that will be unused, but certainly with a different playbook of alternate procedures so things like dumping too much snow on the tracks don't happen.

[ac3r]

Once in a 20 year event seems like media hyperbole. We get heavy 15cm+ snowfalls every year and since this is Canada, they should be prepared for it.

[ijmorlan]

Once in a 20 year event seems like media hyperbole. We get heavy 15cm+ snowfalls every year and since this is Canada, they should be prepared for it.

If anybody is calling it that they have the attention span of a gnat.

20 years takes us back to 2002. In that time we have had numerous storms comparable to this one. I might believe that this storm was a once-in-four-years storm. Just a few years ago the University of Waterloo closed for 2 days in a row during exams, when that meant massive re-scheduling.

[tomh009]

Just a few years ago the University of Waterloo closed for 2 days in a row during exams, when that meant massive re-scheduling.

I don't believe there was as much of a snowfall that time, though.

[tomh009]

The last time over 30 cm of snow fell in a single event was 2008.

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...storm.html

[jeffster]

The last time over 30 cm of snow fell in a single event was 2008.

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...storm.html

Yes, I remember that storm in March 2008. Apparently, aside from 2008, we hadn't had large winter storms like this since the 1970's (1978 I believe). What I do remember is that I went to school between the late 1970's and early 1990's -- during that time, we had 1 snow day, that was the blizzard in 1978. We had a day when I was in middle school when windchills were at -40ºC, but school wasn't cancelled, but we only had about 9 kids in class, out of 35 (it was a smallest class). In high school we had exam deferred by a day due to the cold weather, I still went to school to study though.