ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[jeffster]

Apparently the fare inspection rate on ION was a whopping 16% in 2021, and was well beyond industry standards even before Covid.

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...-says.html

Yes, no question we are policing transit riders far more heavily than say drivers.  This is and always was unacceptable but we did it anyway.

I can guarantee you that they're counting them as 'ridership'.

And if they are, it's not different than when Jeffrey Loria owned the Marlins and purchased thousands of tickets to propel their dismal attendance from being the worst (which therefore made it better than Montreal).

[timio]

Central Fresh seeking up to 10M compensation: https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...omers.html

Archived: https://archive.ph/CvduZ

[danbrotherston]

Central Fresh seeking up to 10M compensation: https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...omers.html

Archived: https://archive.ph/CvduZ

Well, I guess I won't be going back to Central Fresh.

FWIW...The LRT is the only reason I've ever gone to Central Fresh.

[Bob_McBob]

The most interesting thing about the article for me is how many people on Facebook are blaming high prices or other factors rather than the LRT. Not long ago there would have been dozens of anti-LRT comments on an article like this.

[danbrotherston]

The most interesting thing about the article for me is how many people on Facebook are blaming high prices or other factors rather than the LRT. Not long ago there would have been dozens of anti-LRT comments on an article like this.

Fair point, as I no longer use FB I haven't seen the comments. 

That is a good thing, and I think it speaks to the passage of time. People have lived with the LRT...while initially they may have been shocked, that just like the hundreds of other cities with LRT systems in them, the world did not end here when it was built.

[ac3r]

Central Fresh seeking up to 10M compensation: https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...omers.html

Archived: https://archive.ph/CvduZ

Well, I guess I won't be going back to Central Fresh.

FWIW...The LRT is the only reason I've ever gone to Central Fresh.

I stopped going because I can't ever get in with my backpack. They assume everyone with a bag is in there to steal. And it makes no sense. A woman can go in with her purse, but anyone with a backpack is a potential thief. It's nonsensical and annoying. Each time they shout at you to leave it at the front counter and that just got too annoying for me. I know they do have theft, everywhere does and it's particularly harder on independent businesses, but to treat everyone as a potential thief is a bad approach.

As for his actual complaints, I think he's approaching this from a naïve point of view. I get his argument (though I disagree with it) but he doesn't seem to understand why the LRT is a good thing. Sure, it cut out two lanes of traffic, but it provides access to the store for customers who don't have a vehicle. The property still has access as well. It's not like those 4 lanes that existed before were constantly funneling traffic to him and each car on that road was going there. And ultimately, the LRT is thousands upon thousands more people downtown, midtown and uptown to live and work. Development is booming and, being the only true grocery store in that area, that means he can capitalize on it.

I don't think he'll win this. It's weird to come out with this now. The LRT has been in operation...what...3 or 4 years now? Didn't he notice this sooner? And is he forgetting that we're living through the 5th deadliest pandemic in human history for the last two years? If there is any reason grocery sales have declined to the point that he is having to cut employee wages, benefits and bonuses, it's likely related to that, not the LRT. Sounds to me like he just wants to relocate the store somewhere and expects the region to pay for it. It would be a shame if he did close down, though. Rents are high and the pandemic has really made things more expensive, so it'll be hard to relocate the place. It's a risky decision to plan on moving. It's an independent grocer that has been part of this region for decades, so to see it shut down would be unfortunate. But I really don't get why he'd be suddenly trying to get 10 million dollars out of the region to relocate and is blaming it on the LRT. He could be digging his own grave here.

Also, I don't drive, so maybe I just don't know, but I don't see how a train going by every 10 or 15 minutes somehow makes it harder to pull into the store. When it does go by, it takes a few seconds to roll through the intersection and then it's gone.

[timc]

I don't think he'll win this. It's weird to come out with this now. The LRT has been in operation...what...3 or 4 years now? Didn't he notice this sooner? And is he forgetting that we're living through the 5th deadliest pandemic in human history for the last two years?

It looks from the story that this procedure has been going on for a few years, so they didn't just come out with this now.

[ijmorlan]

I think the idea that the new street layout has reduced access is ridiculous. Even if we’re only (for some reason) talking about motor vehicles, I doubt the street ever really had 4 lanes’ worth of traffic.

Complaining about construction impacts is more reasonable on its face, but it would make almost all construction effectively impossible if we got in the habit of allowing those claims. I believe the sewer needed to be replaced here anyway so the construction impact is shared between mandatory infrastructure renewal and updating the street layout.

It also seems weird to me (but, not a lawyer, and not read up on expropriation law, so this is a strictly lay perspective) to use a proceeding about expropriation compensation to deal with concerns about construction impacts and street layout changes. That implicitly says that if the road allowance had been just enough wider that Central Fresh hadn’t lost any land, they would have no case at all because there would have been no expropriation. Complaining about the expropriation compensation only makes sense if they think the compensation they received didn’t recognize the true value of the land they lost.

[Rainrider22]

He wants to make money through claiming lost revenues, retire, sell the land for redevelopment. That's my guess

[Acitta]

Central Fresh seeking up to 10M compensation: https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...omers.html

Archived: https://archive.ph/CvduZ

I don't see how it is harder to get to the store. The ION stop is 400m from the store, making it easier to get there. I have no problem biking there, though I rarely shop there because I am closer to other stores, though I used to walk there from Victoria St. when I first moved to Kitchener 20 years ago. Maybe if they removed the barrier blocking access to their parking lot from the rear, then it would be easier for death machine drivers to get there, though perhaps the residents of Braun St. would not be happy with that.

[jeffster]

Well, I guess I won't be going back to Central Fresh.

FWIW...The LRT is the only reason I've ever gone to Central Fresh.

I stopped going because I can't ever get in with my backpack. They assume everyone with a bag is in there to steal. And it makes no sense. A woman can go in with her purse, but anyone with a backpack is a potential thief. It's nonsensical and annoying. Each time they shout at you to leave it at the front counter and that just got too annoying for me. I know they do have theft, everywhere does and it's particularly harder on independent businesses, but to treat everyone as a potential thief is a bad approach.

As for his actual complaints, I think he's approaching this from a naïve point of view. I get his argument (though I disagree with it) but he doesn't seem to understand why the LRT is a good thing. Sure, it cut out two lanes of traffic, but it provides access to the store for customers who don't have a vehicle. The property still has access as well. It's not like those 4 lanes that existed before were constantly funneling traffic to him and each car on that road was going there. And ultimately, the LRT is thousands upon thousands more people downtown, midtown and uptown to live and work. Development is booming and, being the only true grocery store in that area, that means he can capitalize on it.

I don't think he'll win this. It's weird to come out with this now. The LRT has been in operation...what...3 or 4 years now? Didn't he notice this sooner? And is he forgetting that we're living through the 5th deadliest pandemic in human history for the last two years? If there is any reason grocery sales have declined to the point that he is having to cut employee wages, benefits and bonuses, it's likely related to that, not the LRT. Sounds to me like he just wants to relocate the store somewhere and expects the region to pay for it. It would be a shame if he did close down, though. Rents are high and the pandemic has really made things more expensive, so it'll be hard to relocate the place. It's a risky decision to plan on moving. It's an independent grocer that has been part of this region for decades, so to see it shut down would be unfortunate. But I really don't get why he'd be suddenly trying to get 10 million dollars out of the region to relocate and is blaming it on the LRT. He could be digging his own grave here.

Also, I don't drive, so maybe I just don't know, but I don't see how a train going by every 10 or 15 minutes somehow makes it harder to pull into the store. When it does go by, it takes a few seconds to roll through the intersection and then it's gone.

LRT started in June 2019, so almost 3 years. Also, though, Covid started about 8 months after the LRT started, so it's hard to determine real damages. Central is already a crowded store, even if you don't have a lot of customers, so I am guessing many customers are avoiding it because it's too damned tight to begin with.

I also agree that I am not sure how the LRT has made it more difficult to get into that store. However, I would agree that many people are avoiding the area between Victoria and Allen, so visually he would be getting a lot less exposure. I would avoid that area myself, but my kid has been in and out of the emergency, plus our dentist and pharmacy are also in that area.

[neonjoe]

Page 26 of this Ontario Government Plan shows an iON Stage 3 Running on King from Conestoga back into Waterloo

https://files.ontario.ca/mto-ggh-transpo...-03-10.pdf

[ijmorlan]

Page 26 of this Ontario Government Plan shows an iON Stage 3 Running on King from Conestoga back into Waterloo

https://files.ontario.ca/mto-ggh-transpo...-03-10.pdf

Do you mean Map 5 on Page 23?

[nms]

Page 26 of this Ontario Government Plan shows an iON Stage 3 Running on King from Conestoga back into Waterloo

https://files.ontario.ca/mto-ggh-transpo...-03-10.pdf

Do you mean Map 5 on Page 23?

I guess is depends on how your PDF reader works. It's page 23 in the document, but page 25 when the cover pages are included.

It's interesting that this particular Phase 3 is being suggested instead of the various other "Phase 3" options that have been discussed. It is perhaps that Regional planners have looked at that stretch of King St and determined that is a more likely candidate for redevelopment that other long stretches in the Region? Possible bonus points include:
- a generally commercial area home to various low-rise commercial on large lots that could be redeveloped without too much neighbourhood opposition
- generally little industrial brownfields that might require large clean-up
- close enough to the University district that development could attract residential (student or recently graduated student housing), service commercial (restaurants etc) and space for tech start-ups?
- it's a straight shot down King St without having to worry about complicated turns or land acquisition
- it closes the loop and allows trains to run south without turning around

It would however open up a slight scheduling challenge in that now there would be A and B trains that would split at the Uptown Square

[cherrypark]

He wants to make money through claiming lost revenues, retire, sell the land for redevelopment.  That's my guess

I mean the article even states he's been working to review the property for re-development. This is absolutely about trying to exit the land with suing to relocate, selling to redevelop, and helping himself out of a pinch that is assuredly COVID related and not the LRT.

Never went there for much because of the undifferentiated selection and prices - won't be going back if that's what he's after. Plenty of other indy grocers in town more deserving of business.