ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[danbrotherston]

I guess that's why no subway station in the world is a success....

Honestly, this is ridiculous, grade separated stations are expensive, but in no way impossible or difficult to do well. Obviously also possible to do poorly, as are at grade stations, the station at Block Line being an excellent example (it's terrible as is, utterly idiotic), and ironic that you bring up social safety given that the alignment on Block Line has probably the most dangerous situation in the city.

It's bizarre to be having this discussion, one venue over you'll find people explaining how at grade transit is always garbage. I've not taken the extreme view in either direction, instead basing my opinion on context. This bridge is already grade separated, the context leads to a grade separated station, nothing else.

Maybe you have never spent any time in Toronto, or any subway station for that matter, but two big differences: 1) Subway stations tend to be busy, even at slow times. The presence of other people is a deterrent. This isn't the case for Ion much past 8 or 9 PM. I know this because I have lived in Toronto, and I have used the Ion. One is always busy, one isn't. 2) There tends to be staff, security or police at subway stations. This doesn't seem to be the case for the Ion, as our stops are really no different than bus stops.

Putting the station down in the yards not only would have been more expensive but also not friendly at all for users. It would have been further for everyone to use. AODA compliance would have been a nightmare, not only would you need functioning elevators, you'd also need a ramp as back-up. Hindsight also suggests that it may have been a risk, with people taking shortcuts and cutting holes in fences, or by-passing fences that would need to have been built to keep people off of the yard tracks. While I have only seen minimal activity in the yards, it is there, and some idiot is bound to be run over by a slow moving train.

You do know that anyone that wanted to use the Ion from Homer Watson or Fallowfield area would have had to cross the bridge anyway, then backtrack toward Homer Watson and down stairs, a ramp, or an elevator. Not sure how you figured it would be closer to them.

It's almost like you didn't do any research on this.

Oh spare me, I've been in plenty of empty subway stations, not to mention GO stations and MiWay stations--you want to see empty stations go ride MiWay...and I do in fact see tons of security folks at ION stations, more than I've ever seen in a TTC station.

I've now explained a third time, so I'm just going to be blunt, it isn't farther for "everyone"...it's closer for everone to the west. I even gave you a map.

AODA compliance is not a "nightmare" any more than it is in any other grade separated station, and it's achieved easily through elevators. You do not need ramps as backup, no other system has that as a requirement to meet AODA compliance, not TTC, not GO Transit, not Ottawa Transit, not MiWay, so stop inventing requriements to try and make something appear to be impossible which has been done in a half dozen cities all over Ontario to say nothing of the rest of the world.

On tresspassing, people tresspass for a reason, if the station is designed to accomodate pedestrian movements, people will not tresspass...pretty simple. All of the tresspassing we have seen has been as a result of system design not accounting for pedestrian movement. Nobody is going to break into the railyard from the station, because if they wanted into the rail yard, it isn't in any way protected by fencing today.

As for backtracking let me be blunt, it's like you haven't even bothered to read to anything I wrote. How do you need to backtrack if the stairway goes straight into the station from the bridge...

[neonjoe]

It would be very strange having the only grade separated station on the line be in such a (currently) underdeveloped area. If they were going to similar expense to put in others I could understand, but then you have the budget increasing even more, which at the time would have killed the project.

I do have to wonder if a more gentle access to the rail corridor behind Graybar, rather than going along Hayward, would have made the curves less severe.

For some context, I grabbed a sat photo, then copied the exact station platform under the bridge at the bridge pier...then I copied stairways from the Cooksville GO Station, where the stairway reaches the third floor of the parking garage. This is the maximum possible space a stairway would need, different configurations and lower heights could shrink and move this stairway as needed. You could have access from both sides of the bridge, and also an elevator for accessibility. It takes only a few dozen seconds to climb these stairs. The platform could be widened as needed to accomodate these features. The CP line under the bridge would need to be moved, but there is quite a bit of unused space there between the tracks.  And the Fallowfield buildings could be less than a 400 meter walk from the station.

I think the photoshop caused me to realize that there might have been some engineering or rework to the bridge structure itself to fit in the station and associated infrastructure unless an agreement with the railroads were to be made. The bridge embankment footings are just covered by quick copy and paste of the rails and platform. The bridge was built by and is owned by COK and not the region.
It definitely was a cost related decision rather that usability. The current station will be friendlier if the Vierra Village condos ever get built. I do agree right now it’s the most hostile station to passengers being right beside the road.

[danbrotherston]

It would be very strange having the only grade separated station on the line be in such a (currently) underdeveloped area. If they were going to similar expense to put in others I could understand, but then you have the budget increasing even more, which at the time would have killed the project.

I do have to wonder if a more gentle access to the rail corridor behind Graybar, rather than going along Hayward, would have made the curves less severe.

For some context, I grabbed a sat photo, then copied the exact station platform under the bridge at the bridge pier...then I copied stairways from the Cooksville GO Station, where the stairway reaches the third floor of the parking garage. This is the maximum possible space a stairway would need, different configurations and lower heights could shrink and move this stairway as needed. You could have access from both sides of the bridge, and also an elevator for accessibility. It takes only a few dozen seconds to climb these stairs. The platform could be widened as needed to accomodate these features. The CP line under the bridge would need to be moved, but there is quite a bit of unused space there between the tracks.  And the Fallowfield buildings could be less than a 400 meter walk from the station.

I think the photoshop caused me to realize that there might have been some engineering or rework to the bridge structure itself to fit in the station and associated infrastructure unless an agreement with the railroads were to be made. The bridge embankment footings are just covered by quick copy and paste of the rails and platform. The bridge was built by and is owned by COK and not the region.
It definitely was a cost related decision rather that usability. The current station will be friendlier if the Vierra Village condos ever get built. I do agree right now it’s the most hostile station to passengers being right beside the road.

The region already needed an agreement with the railway for other sections, I would expect moving the rail lines separately would have been the most feasible option for doing this.

Vierra would make the station feel better (not being in a field) but there may be some improved pedestrian connections but I expect several issues to remain including of course the ridiculous sidewalk tunnel on the other of block line. I feel a grade separated station could have been integrated or connected directly with the first (or basement) floor of the Vierra development, not exactly a magical experience but a good experience for residents and visitors to the development.

[Bob_McBob]

Hopefully the last LRT collision of the year.

[neonjoe]

I have seen so many vehicles at this intersection making a left from EB/NB Charles to Benton. (I’ve often been stuck waiting behind someone blocking the road waiting to make the illegal left)  I’m not surprised that this hasn’t happened more frequently.

[bgb_ca]

I have seen so many vehicles at this intersection making a left from EB/NB Charles to Benton. (I’ve often been stuck waiting behind someone blocking the road waiting to make the illegal left)  I’m not surprised that this hasn’t happened more frequently.

This actually is King/Green. That intersection has a left turn arrow so I am guessing someone ignored the traffic lights.

[jwilliamson]

Hopefully the last LRT collision of the year.

I was riding home with my daughter around noon and we had to get off at Central. I was wondering what happened and I guess this is it.

[Bob_McBob]

Does anyone know why the entire ION system is shut down for "emergency repairs" today?

[neonjoe]

Could have been in anticipation of the freezing rain? In hindsight it really wasn’t a bad cleanup yesterday.

[ac3r]

They shouldn't need to shut down an entire rapid transit system for a bit of freezing rain...

[Bob_McBob]

It's not just the suspension of service, but also the near complete lack of communication and interaction with the public that has carried through from the construction phase. Shutting down an entire LRT system for a day should be a really big deal, but there's nothing in the news, nothing on official social media accounts, blank displays on platform signs (per Canard on Twitter), and just a vague description of "emergency repairs" buried on the GRT service alerts page.

[danbrotherston]

It's not just the suspension of service, but also the near complete lack of communication and interaction with the public that has carried through from the construction phase. Shutting down an entire LRT system for a day should be a really big deal, but there's nothing in the news, nothing on official social media accounts, blank displays on platform signs (per Canard on Twitter), and just a vague description of "emergency repairs" buried on the GRT service alerts page.

Indeed!

[neonjoe]

Maybe vandalism of some sort? They might avoid publicizing it to discourage copycats.

[danbrotherston]

Maybe vandalism of some sort? They might avoid publicizing it to discourage copycats.

Damage that can shut down an entire transit line goes beyond vandalism.

[ac3r]

There's nothing on the GRT_ROW Twitter account about it. It's not like we'd see the TTC shutdown the entire subway/streetcar network in Toronto but not give any sort of press release or update to social media, so I wonder why GRT thinks it's okay to leave 620'000 people in the dark about it.

Would it have really been the ice? There wasn't a whole lot in the end - certainly nothing that would be too much just for the LRV pantograph to break through on its own...it might spark a few times but that's pretty normal. They have sand dispensers on the vehicles as well that handle the traction.