Train/LRT safety

[Canard]

From what I understand it was towed down the hill just North of the Grade Sep because it's a 6% grade (steepest part).

Also, before anyone else gets any ideas... someone posted a photo of the top of the LRV's. That's great! What is not great, is that the photo was taken illegally, while the person was trespassing on railway property (walking on the bridge).

This is ridiculously dangerous and stupid, and the police will arrest people caught doing this.

https://www.operationlifesaver.ca/

[danbrotherston]

From what I understand it was towed down the hill just North of the Grade Sep because it's a 6% grade (steepest part).

Also, before anyone else gets any ideas... someone posted a photo of the top of the LRV's.  That's great!  What is not great, is that the photo was taken illegally, while the person was trespassing on railway property (walking on the bridge).

This is ridiculously dangerous and stupid, and the police will arrest people caught doing this.

https://www.operationlifesaver.ca/

Obviously it's trespassing, and illegal, but I do think you are overstating the danger here, the bridge in question is actually a station platform, it isn't a rail bridge, to take the photograph I think you're referring to the person would not be on the tracks, nor would they have had to walk on the tracks.

[ijmorlan]

From what I understand it was towed down the hill just North of the Grade Sep because it's a 6% grade (steepest part).

Also, before anyone else gets any ideas... someone posted a photo of the top of the LRV's.  That's great!  What is not great, is that the photo was taken illegally, while the person was trespassing on railway property (walking on the bridge).

This is ridiculously dangerous and stupid, and the police will arrest people caught doing this.

https://www.operationlifesaver.ca/

It may be stupid, but if the bridge is built the way I understand it to have been built, it is not dangerous, inasmuch as the area where the photographer was presumably standing will eventually be a platform, open to the public. It was probably more dangerous to climb up there (might slip and fall) than to stand at the railing.

Lots of railway trespassing is perfectly safe from a personal injury point of view. There is nothing magical about ownership of property by the railroad that makes it dangerous. It is almost entirely the trains, and they run on tracks. It brings the whole concept of safety awareness into disrepute to claim danger where there is little to none.

Of course I still don’t recommend it, for legal reasons including the possibility of arrest. But let’s be accurate about safety.

And if I misunderstand how the bridge was built and there actually isn’t extra space to stand at the edge, then I retract this post.

[Canard]

This is the thing that gets people killed.

You people have literally no idea what you are talking about.

Ugh this makes me so effing mad. And this is why dozens of people are killed every year needlessly. So ridiculously stupid.

[Canard]

There is an obligation of those who moderate online forums to also uphold the law and not cultivate a forum that encourages or justifies breaking it. This is a very slippery slope you do not want to go down.

[Canard]

https://www.operationlifesaver.ca

clickez-vous

53 people died in Canada last year in trespassing incidents.

[Pheidippides]

I don't think anyone here is condoning or celebrating the behaviour; they are agreeing with you in principle that it is a silly choice and risk to take.

They disagree on the magnitude of the risk which you ascribe to this particular risk.

10x that number (~500) will die of the influenza this, and every, year in Canada
40x that number (~2,300) will die in motor vehicle crashes this, and every year in Canada

That doesn't stop you or others from weighing those odds and choosing to expose yourself to risk factors associated with those and others causes of death. Every choice involves some degree of risk taking and it is learning to evaluate risk clearly that is most helpful in harm reduction. There is a growing body of research that shows over-protecting children at a young age from risk taking actually results in stunted risk evaluation and greater risk taking in older ages. Allowing and helping children to learn to evaluate different situations and process their environments on their own, in controlled settings, is actually the better teacher than simply preaching "thou shall not!"


Can we get back to Ion talk please and thank-you?

I hope when the spring comes someone will go out and photograph the Ion stations from the same angles as the original renders and put photos and renders side-by-side to see how close the original concept was to reality.

Also, does anyone ever see any infill station opportunities on the phase one line? I thought that depending how that new conference centre (Open Sky?) on Ardelt does and what else goes up in the industrial area (maybe a hotel on Overland?) that a stop could be inserted immediately south of the expressway at Ardelt/Overland. It would be fairly close to the existing Mill station, but no closer than stop distances in downtown/uptown areas.

[ijmorlan]

This is the thing that gets people killed.

You people have literally no idea what you are talking about.

Ugh this makes me so effing mad.  And this is why dozens of people are killed every year needlessly.  So ridiculously stupid.

In what way do I not know what I am talking about? Is the bridge different from how I imagine it? Are the tracks in fact right at the edge of the bridge so there is no place to stand safely? If not, you’re just making stuff up. I repeat: there is nothing magically dangerous about railway property; it’s the trains, and anybody with a bit of intelligence can figure out where the trains can and cannot be. This especially applies to a space which will be a public platform but just happens not to be open yet.

What is ridiculously dangerous is going out on one of those long trestles with no railings where the ties are mounted directly to the top of the trestle structure and the rails are on top of the ties. No extra space, nothing to hold on to, long bridge so no time to get to an end even if one hears the train. And on top of that, 99% of the time there is no train, so one doesn’t think of it the way one would a busy road — but as they say, “train time is any time”. In fact I think there is an old sign saying that at the bridge taking the Waterloo Spur over the Grand River just north of St. Jacobs.

Anyway, your point about not trespassing to take photos is valid. But unless you have a factual correction to my understanding of the bridge layout, continuing to push on the “extreme danger” aspect makes no sense. And by the way, I welcome factual corrections: if I’m wrong about something, I want to find out.

[Canard]

Quit bringing it up and dragging me back into this. If you think trespassing and risking your life is worth becoming another stattistic or time in jail, go for it.

Seriously, wtf is so hard about following the law? Go to Germany or Japan with that attitude and see how long you last.

[ijmorlan]

Quit bringing it up and dragging me back into this. If you think trespassing and risking your life is worth becoming another stattistic or time in jail, go for it.

Seriously, wtf is so hard about following the law? Go to Germany or Japan with that attitude and see how long you last.

OK, I came up with an analogy. This is a bit like drug education. It has been widely observed that it is counterproductive for parents and educators to pretend that moderate consumption of marijuana is the same as regularly taking crack cocaine. Lying about marijuana by saying that it is extremely dangerous leads young people to doubt all authority figures, which increases the chance they’ll try crack cocaine, which actually is extremely dangerous.

We have a similar situation here. Some railway trespassing situations are highly dangerous; others aren’t dangerous at all. Those are the facts. It is possible to have a debate about precisely how dangerous specific situations are, but it is indisputable that lots of trespassing is perfectly safe.

I think railway safety campaigns should concentrate on the situations that may appear safe but really aren’t. For example, people who think if they hear the train they can just get off the bridge or tunnel quickly; or who think that racing the train to the crossing is a good idea (of course at crossings the authorities also have a safety responsibility not to operate the lights/gates when there is no train).

[JoeKW]

Make a train safety thread and leave it out of this thread please.

[urbd]

Quit bringing it up and dragging me back into this. If you think trespassing and risking your life is worth becoming another stattistic or time in jail, go for it.

Seriously, wtf is so hard about following the law? Go to Germany or Japan with that attitude and see how long you last.

OK, I came up with an analogy. This is a bit like drug education. It has been widely observed that it is counterproductive for parents and educators to pretend that moderate consumption of marijuana is the same as regularly taking crack cocaine. Lying about marijuana by saying that it is extremely dangerous leads young people to doubt all authority figures, which increases the chance they’ll try crack cocaine, which actually is extremely dangerous.

We have a similar situation here. Some railway trespassing situations are highly dangerous; others aren’t dangerous at all. Those are the facts. It is possible to have a debate about precisely how dangerous specific situations are, but it is indisputable that lots of trespassing is perfectly safe.

I think railway safety campaigns should concentrate on the situations that may appear safe but really aren’t. For example, people who think if they hear the train they can just get off the bridge or tunnel quickly; or who think that racing the train to the crossing is a good idea (of course at crossings the authorities also have a safety responsibility not to operate the lights/gates when there is no train).

Exactly. I could not agree more... there are degrees of risk and degrees of irresponsibility. Rules/laws cannot and should not be followed blindly, human beings have free will and will sometimes choose convenience (for example cutting through a railway track because there's no other appropriate pedestrian access), or any other reasons. Just like drugs, trying to completely ban/stop/punish usage has only led to way worse consequences than the individual effects of the drugs themselves. Sometimes when enough people 'trespass' a railway to create a desire line, maybe the local government notices and then the path is formalized. It's the same for an endless number of cases of law breaking that end up with positive social change. Err, we have minimum wage and working hours today because in the past, many people broke the law and fought for it. I guess some people were simply born to follow rules.

[Canard]

For such a smart and intelligent group of individuals I cannot believe the absolute defiance to follow the law.

Absolutely disgusting. Totally disrespectful of the rail industry.

I grew up being respectful of other people’s proeprty and never ever trespassed. Ever. I grew up with Operation Lifesaver drilled into my head from an early age of being a Railway fan and totally respect their wishes.

This is my last post on this - my blood pressure won’t take it and I’m about to delete my account on this forum. Life is too damn short to have people like you ruin it.

[Rainrider22]

For such a smart and intelligent group of individuals I cannot believe the absolute defiance to follow the law.

Absolutely disgusting. Totally disrespectful of the rail industry.

I grew up being respectful of other people’s proeprty and never ever trespassed. Ever. I grew up with Operation Lifesaver drilled into my head from an early age of being a Railway fan and totally respect their wishes.

This is my last post on this - my blood pressure won’t take it and I’m about to delete my account on this forum. Life is too damn short to have people like you ruin it.

I think you need to take a deep breath.  You grouped everyone on here in to a category based on a few comments.  That is not right either.  People are allowed to have differing opinions.  I found the comments to be respectful.  Just because others view things through a different lens shouldn't mean you pack up your toys and go home.  If a debate with others who for the most part are complete strangers to you, and have no impact on your life, cause your blood pressure to rise this much, it just might be a good idea for you to take a break from all social media....

[urbd]

For such a smart and intelligent group of individuals I cannot believe the absolute defiance to follow the law.

Absolutely disgusting. Totally disrespectful of the rail industry.

I grew up being respectful of other people’s proeprty and never ever trespassed. Ever. I grew up with Operation Lifesaver drilled into my head from an early age of being a Railway fan and totally respect their wishes.

This is my last post on this - my blood pressure won’t take it and I’m about to delete my account on this forum. Life is too damn short to have people like you ruin it.

I think you need to take a deep breath.  You grouped everyone on here in to a category based on a few comments.  That is not right either.  People are allowed to have differing opinions.  I found the comments to be respectful.  Just because others view things through a different lens shouldn't mean you pack up your toys and go home.  If a debate with others who for the most part are complete strangers to you, and have no impact on your life, cause your blood pressure to rise this much, it just might be a good idea for you to take a break from all social media....

Stole the words from my mouth. Wow.