Intercity bus transportation

[Acitta]

When I first moved to Kitchener, a lot of people were using Greyhound to go to Toronto but it deteriorated over the years.

Greyhound did little to update their service for decades. I'm sure they actually make a lot of money, but with the pandemic, and their lack of investment (i.e., infrastructure debt), there was little future prospect for earning. Most aspects of their service was terrible, but they had a lot of legacy artefacts (stations, customers) that were valuable and it is a shame that nothing was done to provide a real transition. I'm not sorry they're gone, but it really says a lot about our priorities that we did nothing to provide continuity of service.

A number of years ago, they were cutting back service to Toronto and had a public meeting for customers. One thing that they said was that if they did not have every seat filled with a paying customer, then they were losing money. There were a lot of upset commuters at that meeting.

[danbrotherston]

Greyhound did little to update their service for decades. I'm sure they actually make a lot of money, but with the pandemic, and their lack of investment (i.e., infrastructure debt), there was little future prospect for earning. Most aspects of their service was terrible, but they had a lot of legacy artefacts (stations, customers) that were valuable and it is a shame that nothing was done to provide a real transition. I'm not sorry they're gone, but it really says a lot about our priorities that we did nothing to provide continuity of service.

A number of years ago, they were cutting back service to Toronto and had a public meeting for customers. One thing that they said was that if they did not have every seat filled with a paying customer, then they were losing money. There were a lot of upset commuters at that meeting.

That seems dubious at best...having a break even load factor of 100% is not something any transportation company can survive. Frankly, I fully believe they would just lie about it, it's pretty easy to fudge the numbers.

But in any case, we all know that a race to the bottom is a failing plan for transit.

[Acitta]

A number of years ago, they were cutting back service to Toronto and had a public meeting for customers. One thing that they said was that if they did not have every seat filled with a paying customer, then they were losing money. There were a lot of upset commuters at that meeting.

That seems dubious at best...having a break even load factor of 100% is not something any transportation company can survive. Frankly, I fully believe they would just lie about it, it's pretty easy to fudge the numbers.

But in any case, we all know that a race to the bottom is a failing plan for transit.

I think that the growth of GO transit really cut into their profits. A private company can't compete with a subsidized service.

[danbrotherston]

That seems dubious at best...having a break even load factor of 100% is not something any transportation company can survive. Frankly, I fully believe they would just lie about it, it's pretty easy to fudge the numbers.

But in any case, we all know that a race to the bottom is a failing plan for transit.

I think that the growth of GO transit really cut into their profits. A private company can't compete with a subsidized service.

Where did they compete with GO? KW is about the only market, and that competition was....not exactly direct.  But I'd be willing to believe that KW was their biggest market.

But in general yes, transit is not a market where competition makes a lot of sense.

[goggolor]

I took Greyhound into Toronto for weekend/day trips for many years. Greyhound busses, especially on the weekend, were almost always full - on Sunday evenings they'd sometimes have to split the hourly trip into 3 separate busses for Cambridge/Guelph, Kitchener, and the Universities. Any time I took the GO bus to Bramalea there were only a handful of riders even pre-pandemic.

Now that universities are in-person again I don't know how all those students are going to get back to Kitchener on Sunday nights - will the 3.5 hour GO bus via Square One be packed? It continually confuses me that the powers that be can't see the demand for weekend travel between two of the largest cities in SW Ontario.

[danbrotherston]

I took Greyhound into Toronto for weekend/day trips for many years. Greyhound busses, especially on the weekend, were almost always full - on Sunday evenings they'd sometimes have to split the hourly trip into 3 separate busses for Cambridge/Guelph, Kitchener, and the Universities. Any time I took the GO bus to Bramalea there were only a handful of riders even pre-pandemic.

Now that universities are in-person again I don't know how all those students are going to get back to Kitchener on Sunday nights - will the 3.5 hour GO bus via Square One be packed? It continually confuses me that the powers that be can't see the demand for weekend travel between two of the largest cities in SW Ontario.

I dunno, in my experience the 25 Square One bus was usually pretty full on weekends.

[jamincan]

The 25 Square One basically replaces the Feds bus that used to shuttle students to Square One.

[linkthewatershed]

A new proposal from the local transit unions in Brantford, Guelph, and Waterloo Region in partnership with a local transit advocacy group has launched to Link the Watershed. They have a website with a video and supporting documents at linkthewatershedtransit.wordpress.com

[Acitta]

Does anyone want to start a bus company?

Fleet of Greyhound buses up for sale after company shut down all Canadian operations permanently
[url=https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/11/18/fleet-of-greyhound-buses-up-for-sale-after-company-shut-down-all-canadian-operations-permanently.html][/url]

[ac3r]

Waterloo Connected Transit perhaps? Start a fundraiser Spokes.

[ac3r]

Someone is petitioning ourbus to open a route between Waterloo Region and Toronto if anyone is interested in providing a signature for it: https://www.ourbus.com/invitation/OBNICMGJ/509541

[Acitta]

Someone is petitioning ourbus to open a route between Waterloo Region and Toronto if anyone is interested in providing a signature for it: https://www.ourbus.com/invitation/OBNICMGJ/509541

Why would a small American company want to move into Canada and try to compete with GO Transit?

[ac3r]

They already have a few routes that go to/from Toronto to various cities in New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts. Not sure they'd consider it viable to compete with GO Transit, but it could open up a new market for travel if they did. Greyhound and Megabus did alright when they were here.

[danbrotherston]

Someone is petitioning ourbus to open a route between Waterloo Region and Toronto if anyone is interested in providing a signature for it: https://www.ourbus.com/invitation/OBNICMGJ/509541

Why would a small American company want to move into Canada and try to compete with GO Transit?

At this point, they'd not be competing with GO Transit who does not operate a bus route from Toronto to WR.

But I'm not exactly hopeful here either.

[Acitta]

Why would a small American company want to move into Canada and try to compete with GO Transit?

At this point, they'd not be competing with GO Transit who does not operate a bus route from Toronto to WR.

But I'm not exactly hopeful here either.

Well, they do operate a train that will be all day service at some point in the future. Also, you can also take a bus to and from Toronto and Kitchener, you just have to take two of them, or one bus and a train, transferring at Bramalea. That may be not quite as good as one bus all the way, but you don't have to book in advance or buy a ticket. You just tap your Presto card. I switched to GO even before Greyhound stopped running. There are a lot of other communities in Ontario that used to be served by Greyhound but now have no service whatsoever. That seems like a better opportunity for a bus company wanting to expand.