ION Phase 2 - Cambridge's Light Rail Transit

[tomh009]

An interregional transit service between Guelph and Waterloo Region is one of those things that would likely have to be dealt with by Metrolinx, and that Metrolinx has precisely zero interest in. I don't think there's a lot of interest in Guelph in closer ties with Waterloo Region either, even though I think it makes a lot of sense and would significantly strengthen both regions.

I don't think Metrolinx has any kind of exclusivity. Just like Greyhound, GRT (or whoever) would need to have a licence to operate between the two cities. And having a commuter bus connection between Kitchener and Guelph should not make the Guelph city council unhappy, either.

[danbrotherston]

An interregional transit service between Guelph and Waterloo Region is one of those things that would likely have to be dealt with by Metrolinx, and that Metrolinx has precisely zero interest in. I don't think there's a lot of interest in Guelph in closer ties with Waterloo Region either, even though I think it makes a lot of sense and would significantly strengthen both regions.

I don't think Metrolinx has any kind of exclusivity. Just like Greyhound, GRT (or whoever) would need to have a licence to operate between the two cities. And having a commuter bus connection between Kitchener and Guelph should not make the Guelph city council unhappy, either.

I think Greyhound must already own the license given that they have buses running between KW and Guelph.

I'm not sure where that puts KW and Guelph.

[timio]

A line running from the Boardwalk to the airport would be pretty similar in length to Phase One. Of course, a third of that distance would be from Lackner or so to the airport, so it might be hard to justify, though it would be the cheaper portion of the line.

This would remind me of Edinburgh, with the airport at one end of the tram, through a bunch of rural and industrial areas before veering into the thick of the downtown at the other end. You could either use Victoria or the proposed (not in the near-term plans) Ottawa bridge over the Grand and come in as a 205 replacement.

[panamaniac]

Istm that a third phase would almost have to pass through DTK on Victoria to tie in to the transit hub, but I wonder if any route from the Boardwalk could get close to FHCI and St Mary's hospital?  Maybe follow Highland Rd/Queens Blve rather than Victoria as far as Belmont and then up to Victoria?  Or would that make the route too indirect/inefficeint?  "North" (i.e. east) of King, I certainly couldn't see it running as far as the airport, the demand couldn't possibly justify it.

[Rainrider22]

Istm that a third phase would almost have to pass through DTK on Victoria to tie in to the transit hub, but I wonder if any route from the Boardwalk could get close to FHCI and St Mary's hospital?  Maybe follow Highland Rd/Queens Blve rather than Victoria as far as Belmont and then up to Victoria?  Or would that make the route too indirect/inefficeint?  "North" (i.e. east) of King, I certainly couldn't see it running as far as the airport, the demand couldn't possibly justify it.

Maybe not to the airport, but Breslau...  Now you have the township getting service.  And they could have shuttle buses from airport to the Breslau station.

[panamaniac]

Istm that a third phase would almost have to pass through DTK on Victoria to tie in to the transit hub, but I wonder if any route from the Boardwalk could get close to FHCI and St Mary's hospital?  Maybe follow Highland Rd/Queens Blve rather than Victoria as far as Belmont and then up to Victoria?  Or would that make the route too indirect/inefficeint?  "North" (i.e. east) of King, I certainly couldn't see it running as far as the airport, the demand couldn't possibly justify it.

Maybe not to the airport, but Breslau...  Now you have the township getting service.  And they could have shuttle buses from airport to the Breslau station.

Given the distance to Breslau, I'd wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to hang a left at Lancaster and run it up to Rim Park and Blackberry land?  Politically, that would have the advantage of keeping Waterloo on side with a Phase 3.

[westwardloo]

Maybe not to the airport, but Breslau...  Now you have the township getting service.  And they could have shuttle buses from airport to the Breslau station.

Given the distance to Breslau, I'd wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to hang a left at Lancaster and run it up to Rim Park and Blackberry land?  Politically, that would have the advantage of keeping Waterloo on side with a Phase 3.

Well hopefully kitchener and Waterloo are one city by then and we don't have to worry about appeasing a city to get transit project done. It make more sense to run a phase 4 line down university turn onto westmont then on erb and make your way to the boardwalk and make a hub there. Connected to the victoria/ highland line.

[Rainrider22]

Maybe not to the airport, but Breslau...  Now you have the township getting service.  And they could have shuttle buses from airport to the Breslau station.

Given the distance to Breslau, I'd wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to hang a left at Lancaster and run it up to Rim Park and Blackberry land?  Politically, that would have the advantage of keeping Waterloo on side with a Phase 3.

I think maintaining east/ west is better though.  Not sure I am concerned if Waterloo is on board...  Waterloo is well served..

[tomh009]

I don't think Metrolinx has any kind of exclusivity. Just like Greyhound, GRT (or whoever) would need to have a licence to operate between the two cities. And having a commuter bus connection between Kitchener and Guelph should not make the Guelph city council unhappy, either.

I think Greyhound must already own the license given that they have buses running between KW and Guelph.

I'm not sure where that puts KW and Guelph.

I do believe that they own "a" licence rather than "the" licence.

[danbrotherston]

Ha, we thought it was over, but no, with Phase 2 comes more misleading information:

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/i-should-bu...sc=CjhassI

A) His restaurant was not taken for phase 1, it was taken because Cadillac Fairview doesn't want bus passengers near their mall, has nothing to do with the LRT.

B) His property is not divided in half, the back chunk will be cut off and he will lose his view of....8 lanes of traffic on the highway.

*sigh*.

[jeffster]

Ha, we thought it was over, but no, with Phase 2 comes more misleading information:

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/i-should-bu...sc=CjhassI

A) His restaurant was not taken for phase 1, it was taken because Cadillac Fairview doesn't want bus passengers near their mall, has nothing to do with the LRT.

B) His property is not divided in half, the back chunk will be cut off and he will lose his view of....8 lanes of traffic on the highway.

*sigh*.

I think you're wrong there. It was definitely taken by the LRT, purchased by the region, for the train and for the parking -- that spot is now a parking lot. I don't believe it was ever on mall property.

[small]CTV Kitchener
Published Tuesday, March 22, 2016 11:53AM EDT
Last Updated Tuesday, March 22, 2016 7:00PM EDT[/small]

Two restaurants on Fairway Road will be demolished to make way for a new terminal for buses and light rail vehicles.

Waterloo Region councillors voted Tuesday to approve the expropriation of the two properties – one housing a Burger King, the other a Crabby Joe’s.

Coun. Tom Galloway said the expropriation process is necessary to ensure that the properties are turned over to the region in time for the start of the ION LRT service next year, but may not be completed in full.

Also, why wouldn't Fairview Park Mall want bus business? Can you prove it with a citation? It sounds ridiculous if true.

Can't speak for the mans visual being affected, but good chance he'll lose the river view, which was his complaint.

[danbrotherston]

Ha, we thought it was over, but no, with Phase 2 comes more misleading information:

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/i-should-bu...sc=CjhassI

A) His restaurant was not taken for phase 1, it was taken because Cadillac Fairview doesn't want bus passengers near their mall, has nothing to do with the LRT.

B) His property is not divided in half, the back chunk will be cut off and he will lose his view of....8 lanes of traffic on the highway.

*sigh*.

I think you're wrong there. It was definitely taken by the LRT, purchased by the region, for the train and for the parking -- that spot is now a parking lot. I don't believe it was ever on mall property.

[small]CTV Kitchener
Published Tuesday, March 22, 2016 11:53AM EDT
Last Updated Tuesday, March 22, 2016 7:00PM EDT[/small]

Two restaurants on Fairway Road will be demolished to make way for a new terminal for buses and light rail vehicles.

Waterloo Region councillors voted Tuesday to approve the expropriation of the two properties – one housing a Burger King, the other a Crabby Joe’s.

Coun. Tom Galloway said the expropriation process is necessary to ensure that the properties are turned over to the region in time for the start of the ION LRT service next year, but may not be completed in full.

Also, why wouldn't Fairview Park Mall want bus business? Can you prove it with a citation? It sounds ridiculous if true.

Can't speak for the mans visual being affected, but good chance he'll lose the river view, which was his complaint.

I don't feel like finding a citation, you can trust me or not, it was well documented that Fairview didn't want the buses on their property, that's the reason the bus terminal moved, you can even tell that the LRT station was designed to connect with the old bus terminal, not the new one, which had a wall blocking it until just recently.

As for why, it's one part the Bay complaining about bus passengers waiting in the vestibule (because it was heated) and one part not believing that many customers actually arrive by transit...but it's one reason I will no longer shop at Fairview.

As for his view, he certainly won't "lose" his river view, the LRT goes along the highway and over the river.

[taylortbb]

Also, why wouldn't Fairview Park Mall want bus business? Can you prove it with a citation? It sounds ridiculous if true.

You're not going to find a citation in public records, but I can confirm the veracity of Dan's statement. I talked privately with the region about the issue (as a part of TriTAG), and Cadillac Fairview definitely didn't want the bus terminal on their property. Management views bus riders as just taking up space and using facilities meant for paying customers, without ever buying anything. 

Conestoga Mall is quite the contrast, where management views bus riders as a key source of customers, and has been extremely accommodating of GRT.

Of course this may have something to do with the different demographics of transit ridership between the two areas.

[trainspotter139]

I think you're wrong there. It was definitely taken by the LRT, purchased by the region, for the train and for the parking -- that spot is now a parking lot. I don't believe it was ever on mall property.


Also, why wouldn't Fairview Park Mall want bus business? Can you prove it with a citation? It sounds ridiculous if true.

Can't speak for the mans visual being affected, but good chance he'll lose the river view, which was his complaint.

I don't feel like finding a citation, you can trust me or not, it was well documented that Fairview didn't want the buses on their property, that's the reason the bus terminal moved, you can even tell that the LRT station was designed to connect with the old bus terminal, not the new one, which had a wall blocking it until just recently.

As for why, it's one part the Bay complaining about bus passengers waiting in the vestibule (because it was heated) and one part not believing that many customers actually arrive by transit...but it's one reason I will no longer shop at Fairview.

As for his view, he certainly won't "lose" his river view, the LRT goes along the highway and over the river.

Citation: https://www.therecord.com/news-story/639...-terminal/
From TFA:

The Region of Waterloo plans to expropriate the Crabby Joe's and Burger King restaurants on Fairway Road to make way for a new bus terminal.

Politicians vote Tuesday to give staff approval to move ahead with acquiring the land at 296 and 300 Fairway Rd. S. in Kitchener.

Coun. Tom Galloway said the region hasn't been able to reach an agreement with Cadillac Fairview Corporation, which owns Fairview Park mall, to replace the existing Grand River Transit terminal there.



Instead, the region will take the two restaurant properties and merge them with a parking lot behind the two buildings that the region purchased from Cadillac Fairview about a year ago.



"They've been quite unwilling to negotiate anything so it forces our hand into having to purchase these properties," he said.


Cadillac Fairview could not be reached for comment.


In 2009, The Record reported that there were concerns from the mall about the terminal location. The terminal is in the west parking lot, and The Bay had several concerns, including people standing in the entrance to stay warm or cool, depending on the season. It was especially trying when students from several local schools waited for transfers.

In other words, the expropriation was the result of a need for a new bus terminal in the vicinity and the lack of co-operation of Cadillac Fairview in allowing said bus terminal.

[Rainrider22]

Also, why wouldn't Fairview Park Mall want bus business? Can you prove it with a citation? It sounds ridiculous if true.

You're not going to find a citation in public records, but I can confirm the veracity of Dan's statement. I talked privately with the region about the issue (as a part of TriTAG), and Cadillac Fairview definitely didn't want the bus terminal on their property. Management views bus riders as just taking up space and using facilities meant for paying customers, without ever buying anything. 

Conestoga Mall is quite the contrast, where management views bus riders as a key source of customers, and has been extremely accommodating of GRT.

Of course this may have something to do with the different demographics of transit ridership between the two areas.

You mean like when they started ticketing anyone who parked their car there and rode on the LRT ?

Also, what does demographics have to do with it.  Many people ride transit irrespective of their socially economic status.  You statement implies that people boarding the train in the south are not as well off as people boarding a train in North Waterloo....  I board the train with my family at Fairview, I can advise that my income is well above that of the median income of Waterloo..