ION Phase 2 - Cambridge's Light Rail Transit

[tomh009]

Four letters that make this kind of plan much more challenging: C, N, C and P.

[danbrotherston]

I love trains as much as the next guy, but do you guys not believe that implementing a bus first (1-2 million total) to prove the route is worth investing in before investing tens of millions in a train is preferable? I would also think there is a time advantage, there could probably be a bus tomorrow, if we wanted, a train would take years even for a quick and dirty implementation.

The only reason we don't have a bus, AFAIK is that Guelph is not in the Region of Waterloo and there are jurisdictional issues.

Of course, we've also had a failed attempt at a KW<->Guelph service, although read into that as you will.

(There's also Greyhound, but frankly, I read even less into their cut-rate service than the other).

[tomh009]

I love trains as much as the next guy, but do you guys not believe that implementing a bus first (1-2 million total) to prove the route is worth investing in before investing tens of millions in a train is preferable?  I would also think there is a time advantage, there could probably be a bus tomorrow, if we wanted, a train would take years even for a quick and dirty implementation.

Yes. $1M might not be quite enough, as I think that would pay for only two buses (and no operating costs) but $5-10M would easily get things started, depending on how much frequency is needed. Still only a tiny fraction of the train investment -- and probably available in months rather than years.

[ijmorlan]

I love trains as much as the next guy, but do you guys not believe that implementing a bus first (1-2 million total) to prove the route is worth investing in before investing tens of millions in a train is preferable?  I would also think there is a time advantage, there could probably be a bus tomorrow, if we wanted, a train would take years even for a quick and dirty implementation.

The only reason we don't have a bus, AFAIK is that Guelph is not in the Region of Waterloo and there are jurisdictional issues.

Of course, we've also had a failed attempt at a KW<->Guelph service, although read into that as you will.

(There's also Greyhound, but frankly, I read even less into their cut-rate service than the other).

All good points.

However, I’m thinking of this as a strategic decision, which of course is probably foolish given the nature of our politics.

Right now, it’s taken as a given that if a highway is congested, it needs to be widened to handle the traffic (although sometimes on a slow schedule, e.g. Highway 7 to Guelph). But how many highways are congested because of goods shipments and other trips that can’t be done on public transit? Usually highways are primarily congested because of commuting, which is the easiest demand to meet with public transit. So if we take the attitude that the way we handle transportation demand is by building public transit, things change. Long ago the decision was made that we handle transportation demand by building roads. Not long after, the existing for-profit transit companies mostly died, leaving use of the roads as the only option for most trips. We can, at least in principle, make a strategic choice to switch back to more efficient transportation.

[jamincan]

An interregional transit service between Guelph and Waterloo Region is one of those things that would likely have to be dealt with by Metrolinx, and that Metrolinx has precisely zero interest in. I don't think there's a lot of interest in Guelph in closer ties with Waterloo Region either, even though I think it makes a lot of sense and would significantly strengthen both regions.

Ignoring political realities, I would strongly advocate for bus service prior to some sort of train service, but I'm not sure it would be as effective at tying the two regions together. There is something about a train line that seems to compress the perceived distance between two places. A bus just doesn't seem to be able to have the same effect.

[danbrotherston]

An interregional transit service between Guelph and Waterloo Region is one of those things that would likely have to be dealt with by Metrolinx, and that Metrolinx has precisely zero interest in. I don't think there's a lot of interest in Guelph in closer ties with Waterloo Region either, even though I think it makes a lot of sense and would significantly strengthen both regions.

Ignoring political realities, I would strongly advocate for bus service prior to some sort of train service, but I'm not sure it would be as effective at tying the two regions together. There is something about a train line that seems to compress the perceived distance between two places. A bus just doesn't seem to be able to have the same effect.

I don't know that wanting or needing tighter ties with Guelph is relevant, there's already a great deal of travel between the two cities, which is what would be needed to support transit. Guelph is the biggest out of region destination, and vice versa. I'd rather investment into transit was tried first, before enormous funds were invested into a new highway, but sadly that's not how MTO works.

[MidTowner]

It's kind of sad that Guelph and Waterloo Region haven't gotten their act together to jointly deliver an intercity bus service. It's in black and white how many residents of each city commutes to the other, and it's not a small number.

Other adjacent communities in Ontario manage it. Hamilton Street Railway and Burlington Transit jointly run a service connecting their downtowns, and downtown Hamilton with Burlington GO. They're closer geographically, sure, but the jurisdictional issues are the same. It would hardly be an insurmountable hurdle for KW and Guelph.

[Spokes]

Victoria would be my pick for phase 3. Looking at the impact phase one had on development, imagine what phase 3 could do to Victoria. So much potential there

[MidTowner]

I'm inclined to agree, but I think it might be partly for selfish reasons. One strong objective reason is the investment we're going to make in the Intermodal Station.

The case for University would be based on ridership; Victoria, spurring more development.

[neonjoe]

Victoria would be good if they could direct the end of the line towards the airport....

[MidTowner]

A line running from the Boardwalk to the airport would be pretty similar in length to Phase One. Of course, a third of that distance would be from Lackner or so to the airport, so it might be hard to justify, though it would be the cheaper portion of the line.

[Spokes]

You'd have to think that Lackner to the airport would see limited stops/stations.

[danbrotherston]

Victoria would be good if they could direct the end of the line towards the airport....

The airport, in it's current form, and any reasonable projected future usage does not justify a bus, let alone an LRT...

I think the best Phase 3 is to complete the loop down King from Conestoga to Uptown....there's a huge density of housing and development, plus substantial open space for development, it's pretty short so it shouldn't be that expensive, plus is relatively straight and can use existing right of way (if we are willing to one-way King and Regina--which traffic wise is totally reasonable), maybe even call it Phase 2b.

[westwardloo]

A little off topic, but since we are on it. I would like to see phase three along victoria to boardwalk and williamsburg. Obviously might be a couple phases. A rough idea of which route i think it could take.
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[GarthDanlor]

Victoria would be good if they could direct the end of the line towards the airport....

The airport, in it's current form, and any reasonable projected future usage does not justify a bus, let alone an LRT...

I think the best Phase 3 is to complete the loop down King from Conestoga to Uptown....there's a huge density of housing and development, plus substantial open space for development, it's pretty short so it shouldn't be that expensive, plus is relatively straight and can use existing right of way (if we are willing to one-way King and Regina--which traffic wise is totally reasonable), maybe even call it Phase 2b.

My phase 3 would incorporate Doon & Cambridge campuses of Conestoga College.  Essentially connect Preston (or Sportsworld) to Blockline station by running tracks all the way down Fountain/Homer Watson.