ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[Bob_McBob]

Was ATP in use during testing? The trains were definitely running faster than 50km/h in some sections.

[ac3r]

I believe so...I think I read on Twitter that it was shut off again around the time the service launched.

Edit: I think it was this post, which implies they were going faster during testing: https://twitter.com/Canardiain/status/11...6275783680

[ijmorlan]

Was ATP in use during testing? The trains were definitely running faster than 50km/h in some sections.

I have no idea. However during testing they do things they won’t do in regular service; depending on what they’re doing they might only have one vehicle out on the line, for example, eliminating the possibility of collisions. I believe they even traversed the line at speeds slightly higher than the limits, which they would never do regularly.

Funny thing is, I don’t even see why ATP is needed. We regularly run buses at 120km/h on line-of-sight with 3 lanes full of random idiots driving even faster and weaving in and out, so 70km/h on a gently curving single track with excellent visiblity and no non-transit vehicles shouldn’t be a problem.

[kps]

I think the LRT limit should be 70km/h on street running and 90km/h off street, although realistically there are few if any places where it could actually accelerate to 90km/h before needing to begin slowing down for the next station.

The vehicles top out at 80 km/h, even in a straight line, and can't do curves at any speed since the lack of yaw (either between modules or at nonexistent bogies) means they can't be banked.

[tomh009]

80 km/h would be just fine, thank you very much!

[danbrotherston]

So apparently Ottawa is in good shape compared to us:

https://www.ottawamatters.com/local-news...on-1544944

TLR - Ottawa's system doesn't mix with traffic, Kitchener's (Waterloo) does.

While it would have been nice to have a separate system, these cities weren't designed to even make this happen, IMHO. Though much of the LRT doesn't mix traffic, such as parts of Waterloo from Uptown to Northfield and in Kitchener from Bordon to Fairview.

The only aspect of this article I can agree with is that by having our LRT mix with traffic (many are going argue it doesn't, but it still crosses a lot of city streets) it causes some issues. Obviously, traffic accidents have been and will continue to be a problem. Another is that the train is going to be limited in speed along many parts of its route because it can't exactly go over streets/intersections/corners at a high speed...look at the turns at Allen or near Courtland - you could almost just get out and walk faster. And launching the service without the ATP operating also slows things down. I don't understand how they had years of time to get things ready, and they launch it without this, forcing the trains to go incredibly slow.

The ION is more like a city tram/streetcar system, similar to a lot of the lines in Toronto, rather than legitimate light trail. Ottawa has a more proper LRT, completely grade separated with its stations underground or in good locations on the surface, and the rails always separated from traffic by taking efficient routes or going right under any roads in the way. It will be multitudes more efficient than the ION once it is running. Obviously Waterloo Region had to do the ION the way they did because the urban planning in the city has always emphasized vehicles, and for even more historical reasons, the streets evolved to be a mess. But it would have been nice to see some of the stations underground or in trenches, but that would have drove up costs to the point in which nobody would want to fund it. Or, at least have looked into more potential routes where street crossings were more or less eliminated.

I love the fact the ION is here, but it's disappointing. It's hard to see it as anything more than a tram/streetcar network.

I'm so tired of hearing this. The LRT is like a streetcar only in appearance.  Many of the TTC 'streetcars' (Queens Quay, Spadina, St. Clair) are nothing like streetcars either. Running in it's own right of way is fundamentally not a streetcar, and our LRVs do that for the entire length. This means, never getting stuck behind traffic, having reliable timing, etc. etc.  Fighting over nomenclature usually isn't valuable, but I feel that characterizing this system in that way meaningfully misleads people about it's nature.

[trainspotter139]

Was ATP in use during testing? The trains were definitely running faster than 50km/h in some sections.

It was. But as they ramped up testing for service simulation, a number of undesirable issues popped up and so they have shelved ATP for now.

[trainspotter139]

Was ATP in use during testing? The trains were definitely running faster than 50km/h in some sections.

I have no idea. However during testing they do things they won’t do in regular service; depending on what they’re doing they might only have one vehicle out on the line, for example, eliminating the possibility of collisions. I believe they even traversed the line at speeds slightly higher than the limits, which they would never do regularly.

Funny thing is, I don’t even see why ATP is needed. We regularly run buses at 120km/h on line-of-sight with 3 lanes full of random idiots driving even faster and weaving in and out, so 70km/h on a gently curving single track with excellent visiblity and no non-transit vehicles shouldn’t be a problem.

It's not required right now... but once service ramps up to 5 minute frequencies it will be, especially with 5 minute frequency double trains.

[KevinL]

It would be nice to have it sorted by September.

[Square]

Just heard on the scanner about a person getting hit by the LRT. They said the person was lying on the tracks!

[taylortbb]

Just heard on the scanner about a person getting hit by the LRT.  They said the person was lying on the tracks!

I was listening too. The person ran off after, so apparently not major injuries. Maybe laying between the rails and the LRV passed over them? This was between Erb/Caroline and the Laurier-Waterloo Park station, on the ballasted track.

The LRV driver saw them hop the fence onto the Waterloo park central promenade after they'd come to a stop, and then WRPS managed to apprehend them further up the trail.

It was the last trip of the night northbound. Apparently no passengers on board.

[Square]

Just heard on the scanner about a person getting hit by the LRT.  They said the person was lying on the tracks!

I was listening too. The person ran off after, so apparently not major injuries. Maybe laying between the rails and the LRV passed over them? This was between Erb/Caroline and the Laurier-Waterloo Park station, on the ballasted track.

The LRV driver saw them hop the fence onto the Waterloo park central promenade after they'd come to a stop, and then WRPS managed to apprehend them further up the trail.

It was the last trip of the night northbound. Apparently no passengers on board.

Lately been hearing alot of people are playing chicken with ION, especially around the House of Friendship.  I can see something bad coming up eventually!

[jamincan]

ION is obviously nowhere near Ottawa's level of service, because what Ottawa will have is closer to a subway system than normal LRT.

Generally these sorts of comparisons don't seem particularly useful to me. The important questions are whether ION provides a meaningful improvement to transit service in KW, whether it helps redirect growth to central parts of the city, and whether it attracts more people onto transit. The choices that were made for ION's implementation were decisions that made sense in the context of Waterloo Region. Something like what Ottawa has wouldn't be possible here, and if it were proposed, wouldn't have been approved.

[MidTowner]

There was a discussion about this on reddit, and based on the wording on GRT's site, the conclusion was that a monthly pass counts as proof-of-payment, regardless of whether it's been tapped or not**

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/comments/c6nm1b/ticket_inspectors_on_lrt/es9xw0y?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

**redditors are self-proclaimed experts and should not be used as official policy. Viewer discretion is advised.

There was a comment that made me laugh out loud on there (I'm quite sure it was tongue-in-cheek):

Please note that just as on the TTC in Toronto, if you are approached by a fare inspector it is your civic duty to delay them as much as possible. Make a big show of checking every pocket to find your wallet, flip through every card in your wallet before finding your GRT pass, engage them in pointless conversation about nothing, etc.

[MidTowner]

ION is obviously nowhere near Ottawa's level of service, because what Ottawa will have is closer to a subway system than normal LRT.

Generally these sorts of comparisons don't seem particularly useful to me. The important questions are whether ION provides a meaningful improvement to transit service in KW, whether it helps redirect growth to central parts of the city, and whether it attracts more people onto transit. The choices that were made for ION's implementation were decisions that made sense in the context of Waterloo Region. Something like what Ottawa has wouldn't be possible here, and if it were proposed, wouldn't have been approved.

This is the most important bit. I don't see why tunneling here would be technically not possible, but I do know that it would not be achievable politically. We had a significant fight to get LRT; a more expensive system that involved tunnelling in some but not other parts of the line would not have achieved the necessary support.

The two cities are in completely different contexts. Many more middle-class and professional Ottawans take transit and have experienced how having buses operate in mixed traffic downtown wastes time and resources. A completely separate right of way is probably much easier to sell to them.