ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[tomh009]

Hey, where is the BBD train from? One of these things is not like the others ...

[taylortbb]

Hey, where is the BBD train from? One of these things is not like the others ...

The one that says Bombardier and Rapid Transit is from when the agreement with Metrolinx was first signed for us to buy vehicles. At that time the system hadn't been named yet (and I don't think we even had the three candidate names) so they didn't have an ION logo. The other design is newer, and were printed after the system got named. I believe they're identical aside from what's on top.

[trainspotter139]

Hey, where is the BBD train from? One of these things is not like the others ...

looks like one of the original paper models from when the mock-up was in town.

[ijmorlan]

Wheel flats are quite common during the testing, training and commissioning phase of a new system.

That’s probably it then. I wouldn’t be surprised to find they use the emergency brake more during testing than in the following century of normal operation.

[kalis0490]

If you look at the destination sign on the train that says 'Bombardier', it says 'ION'.

Therefore, I think that model was handed out between 2013 and 2014

[danbrotherston]

Wheel flats are quite common during the testing, training and commissioning phase of a new system.

That’s probably it then. I wouldn’t be surprised to find they use the emergency brake more during testing than in the following century of normal operation.

It would be unfortunate if emergency stops resulted in flats. I've been on a TTC streetcar during an emergency stop, it seems like it isn't an infrequent thing in Toronto.

[KevinT]

Wheel flats are quite common during the testing, training and commissioning phase of a new system.

That’s probably it then. I wouldn’t be surprised to find they use the emergency brake more during testing than in the following century of normal operation.

Per the radio traffic, E-stops are part of both the operator training and certification programs.  They'll definitely have been doing a lot of them in the past several months.

It would be unfortunate if emergency stops resulted in flats. I've been on a TTC streetcar during an emergency stop, it seems like it isn't an infrequent thing in Toronto.

There's different levels of 'emergency' stop used at the operator's discretion, some are just stronger levels of service brake application (with ABS), full service brake (with ABS), force brake under ATP (not sure if that uses ABS or not), and an actual emergency stop button that locks the wheels and drops electromagnetic track brakes. Not all will result in wheel flats. Note that once you have even the slightest wheel flat it will tend to grow even under regular service brake applications, as that's the spot where the wheel is most likely to start slipping the next time. Even with ABS, an axle will lock briefly before the system detects it and lets up on the brake pressure to start the wheel spinning again. This is much more of an issue with steel wheels versus rubber tires because the contact patch of steel wheels is so small due to their total lack of elastic deformation. I suspect that one e-stop won't cause a noticeable flat spot on a good wheel, but plants the seeds for one that will develop over time. Multiple e-stops will hasten its development into the clunk clunk clunk that we've been hearing.

[tomh009]

501 is finally out and being tested!

I finally saw it myself, on Charles St E early this morning. No decals at all, but the electronic sign says "501" (not "501A" or "501B").

[Bob_McBob]

Apparently Keolis' goal for ION signal timing is "1-2 minutes," which seems far too long to me based on watching a bunch of C-Train videos where they typically last no more than 40-60 seconds. Northfield would be nearly unusable in one direction with the signals down half the time during rush hour in addition to any pedestrian crossings.

3 things to know before the Ion launches

[danbrotherston]

Apparently Keolis' goal for ION signal timing is "1-2 minutes," which seems far too long to me based on watching a bunch of C-Train videos where they typically last no more than 40-60 seconds. Northfield would be nearly unusable in one direction with the signals down half the time during rush hour in addition to any pedestrian crossings.

3 things to know before the Ion launches

1-2 minutes is the same cycle as a red light at a major intersection.

Clearly 1-2 minutes every 5 minutes at the most frequent won't be a problem for Northfield, which already has intersections that are red for 1-2 minutes ever 2 minutes.

[KevinT]

Apparently Keolis' goal for ION signal timing is "1-2 minutes," which seems far too long to me based on watching a bunch of C-Train videos where they typically last no more than 40-60 seconds. Northfield would be nearly unusable in one direction with the signals down half the time during rush hour in addition to any pedestrian crossings.

3 things to know before the Ion launches

Under-promise and over-deliver?  When I was listening to the radio calls during the commissioning last fall they were aiming for around 25-30 seconds before the train arrived and no more than 10 seconds after it departed.  Assuming it takes 10 seconds for the train to cross the road that's still under a minute...

Also some really poor reporting there about the track lubricators.  CTV makes it sound like they were installed in response to the condo residents complaints, while in truth they were part of the system design from the beginning and were already installed before the first vehicles went out.  It's true though that they weren't activated yet last November and even now they're still getting them dialed in:  While some are overactive and leaving huge blops of grease that even the LRV operators are radio'ing in about as they cause excess wheel slippage, others still aren't quite doing enough and there's the odd corner that's still noisy.  Fortunately those are getting fewer by the day!

As for the vehicle speeds and timings (a recent Facebook topic), I left work on Tuesday night around 5:00 p.m. and drove home down King St to watch trains.  One pulled onto King from Allen about a half a block ahead of me and I couldn't even catch it!  Despite the fact that it made all stops I didn't pass it until Hayward, and that's because it was stopped on Hayward waiting for the poorly tuned pedestrian gate to drop.  If it hadn't been for that, it probably would have remained ahead of me until I turned onto Manitou.  I had a similar experience northbound yesterday.  As I came up Charles the vehicle was just leaving Market Station ahead of me, and again it made all stops and turned into Waterloo Public Square before I was able to pass it.  Admittedly I could have gotten the jump by not taking the same route down Duke that it did, but it still bodes extremely well for the system's rush hour performance.

[danbrotherston]

Apparently Keolis' goal for ION signal timing is "1-2 minutes," which seems far too long to me based on watching a bunch of C-Train videos where they typically last no more than 40-60 seconds. Northfield would be nearly unusable in one direction with the signals down half the time during rush hour in addition to any pedestrian crossings.

3 things to know before the Ion launches

Under-promise and over-deliver?  When I was listening to the radio calls during the commissioning last fall they were aiming for around 25-30 seconds before the train arrived and no more than 10 seconds after it departed.  Assuming it takes 10 seconds for the train to cross the road that's still under a minute...

Also some really poor reporting there about the track lubricators.  CTV makes it sound like they were installed in response to the condo residents complaints, while in truth they were part of the system design from the beginning and were already installed before the first vehicles went out.  It's true though that they weren't activated yet last November and even now they're still getting them dialed in:  While some are overactive and leaving huge blops of grease that even the LRV operators are radio'ing in about as they cause excess wheel slippage, others still aren't doing quite enough and there is the odd corner that's still a bit noisy.  Fortunately those are getting fewer by the day!

As for the vehicle speeds and timings themselves, I left work on Tuesday night around 5:00 p.m. and drove home down King St to train watch.  One pulled onto King from Allen about a half a block ahead of me and I couldn't even catch it!  Despite the fact that it made all stops I didn't pass it until Hayward, and that's because it was stopped on Hayward waiting for the poorly tuned pedestrian gate to drop.  If it hadn't been for that, it probably would have remained ahead of me until I turned onto Manitou.  I had a similar experience northbound yesterday.  As I came up Charles the vehicle was just leaving Market Station ahead of me, and again it made all stops and turned into Waterloo Public square before I was able to pass it.  Admittedly I could have gotten the jump by not taking the same route down Duke that it did, but it still bodes extremely well for the system's rush hour performance.

This!

Why is accurate reporting so difficult.

[boatracer]

Apparently Keolis' goal for ION signal timing is "1-2 minutes," which seems far too long to me based on watching a bunch of C-Train videos where they typically last no more than 40-60 seconds. Northfield would be nearly unusable in one direction with the signals down half the time during rush hour in addition to any pedestrian crossings.

3 things to know before the Ion launches

Under-promise and over-deliver?  When I was listening to the radio calls during the commissioning last fall they were aiming for around 25-30 seconds before the train arrived and no more than 10 seconds after it departed.  Assuming it takes 10 seconds for the train to cross the road that's still under a minute...

Also some really poor reporting there about the track lubricators.  CTV makes it sound like they were installed in response to the condo residents complaints, while in truth they were part of the system design from the beginning and were already installed before the first vehicles went out.  It's true though that they weren't activated yet last November and even now they're still getting them dialed in:  While some are overactive and leaving huge blops of grease that even the LRV operators are radio'ing in about as they cause excess wheel slippage, others still aren't quite doing enough and there's the odd corner that's still noisy.  Fortunately those are getting fewer by the day!

As for the vehicle speeds and timings (a recent Facebook topic), I left work on Tuesday night around 5:00 p.m. and drove home down King St to watch trains.  One pulled onto King from Allen about a half a block ahead of me and I couldn't even catch it!  Despite the fact that it made all stops I didn't pass it until Hayward, and that's because it was stopped on Hayward waiting for the poorly tuned pedestrian gate to drop.  If it hadn't been for that, it probably would have remained ahead of me until I turned onto Manitou.  I had a similar experience northbound yesterday.  As I came up Charles the vehicle was just leaving Market Station ahead of me, and again it made all stops and turned into Waterloo Public Square before I was able to pass it.  Admittedly I could have gotten the jump by not taking the same route down Duke that it did, but it still bodes extremely well for the system's rush hour performance.

 Some lubricators ended up in unfortunate locations. One in particular it on Caroline at William, it is right in front of the drvieway to Uptown Tailor Shop. So cars going in bring grease up on the driveway and sidewalk.

[ijmorlan]

 Some lubricators ended up in unfortunate locations. One in particular it on Caroline at William, it is right in front of the drvieway to Uptown Tailor Shop. So cars going in bring grease up on the driveway and sidewalk.

There is one at Waterloo Town Square that is right in the delivery access for Cora’s. There is a streak of grease running out several metres from the lubricator.

[Bob_McBob]

1-2 minutes is the same cycle as a red light at a major intersection.

Clearly 1-2 minutes every 5 minutes at the most frequent won't be a problem for Northfield, which already has intersections that are red for 1-2 minutes ever 2 minutes.

Sure, but there wasn't an existing intersection there, and major delays in that section of road combined with the expressway on-ramp and traffic from Parkside Dr can easily back up cars to Weber St. We've already discussed the related issue where a train at Northfield Station can cause the signal to stay down for extended periods of time. I appreciate the common refrain that an LRV may be carrying far more people than are waiting in the cars at the intersection, but that doesn't mean we should have lower standards for signal timing than other cities with LRTs to the point a major car route becomes a choke point.

I was also annoyed about CTV's inaccurate reporting about track lubrication. How hard is it to research something that's been ongoing for years?