ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[Canard]

Sorry, I should have explained that better... but yeah, Rob Ford got elected as the Mayor of Toronto, and on his first day, he cancelled 6 of the 7 LRT projects. That was really the day it all started spiralling downhill.

If that hadn't occurred, some of the Toronto lines would have opened before ours, the development of the vehicles never would have stalled, and we'd instead be discussing how our first year of operation was shaking out.

[Rainrider22]

Sorry, I should have explained that better... but yeah, Rob Ford got elected as the Mayor of Toronto, and on his first day, he cancelled 6 of the 7 LRT projects.  That was really the day it all started spiralling downhill.

If that hadn't occurred, some of the Toronto lines would have opened before ours, the development of the vehicles never would have stalled, and we'd instead be discussing how our first year of operation was shaking out.

no no,  your good....  Clear as mud as they say !!

[Bob_McBob]

I didn't realize the region was purchasing some of Metrolinx's allotment of LRVs rather than adding a separate order of 14 onto the original contract.

[tomh009]

Thanks, Canard, that's the first reasonably complete timeline that I have seen!

[ijmorlan]

I think the thing that is very clear from this whole thing is that there really is only one entity at fault here: Rob Ford.

Not true. Less than two years after he purported to cancel Transit City, Toronto City Council voted to re-instate it. Then what did Metrolinx and the provincial government do? Did they resume the projects where they had left off, in particular with the Sheppard LRT ready to begin construction? No! They delayed and delayed so that Finch has only just recently had a contract awarded and Sheppard has receded beyond the observable event horizon.

Rob Ford is to blame for just under 2 years of delay. Dalton McGuinty gets the blame for the rest.

It’s kind of funny. Right wingers are constantly referring to the Liberals as some sort of criminal enterprise (e.g., “McGuilty”, etc.) which of course is absurd; but they actually did do something big wrong. The thing they did wrong, though, is something most right wingers probably support: obfuscating and delaying public transit!

[ijmorlan]

I thought I've made it pretty clear many times, but, again, in a nutshell:

• These 182 vehicles were ordered for the 7 "Transit City" LRT lines in Toronto.
  
• Meanwhile, the design of the ECT changed significantly from a surface route to mostly subway, at Rob Ford's direction, causing a huge delay.  ML had no need for trains on the original timeline and didn't submit any further specifications to Bombardier - knowing that they would have nowhere to physically put the trains, had Bombardier built them on the original schedule.
  

I’m not sure about the number of Transit City lines when the vehicle order was made, but at the time Rob Ford was elected it had already been pared back to 4: Eglinton, Finch, Sheppard, and Scarborough RT replacement.

I don’t believe it is correct that Rob Ford changed Eglinton from surface to subway. The tunnel section was always going to be a tunnel, owing to the narrow right of way. He made noises about burying the surface portion in Scarborough, but nothing came of that.

At some point I recall a deal with Ford to re-instate the Eglinton and Scarborough RT replacement as one super long line, joining up at Kennedy. But I don’t remember where that was in the sequence.

Then of course Glenn de Baeremaker screwed everything up by introducing a surprise motion to switch Scarborough to subway. Apparently it should have been rejected by the Chair as re-opening an issue already settled by Council, which is supposed to require a 2/3 majority. But Frances Nunziata allowed it (because of course she did, and against the advice of staff), and millions of dollars worth of planning was tossed out for no good reason.

[danbrotherston]

I think the thing that is very clear from this whole thing is that there really is only one entity at fault here: Rob Ford.

Not true. Less than two years after he purported to cancel Transit City, Toronto City Council voted to re-instate it. Then what did Metrolinx and the provincial government do? Did they resume the projects where they had left off, in particular with the Sheppard LRT ready to begin construction? No! They delayed and delayed so that Finch has only just recently had a contract awarded and Sheppard has receded beyond the observable event horizon.

Rob Ford is to blame for just under 2 years of delay. Dalton McGuinty gets the blame for the rest.

It’s kind of funny. Right wingers are constantly referring to the Liberals as some sort of criminal enterprise (e.g., “McGuilty”, etc.) which of course is absurd; but they actually did do something big wrong. The thing they did wrong, though, is something most right wingers probably support: obfuscating and delaying public transit!

So I'm confused here, wasn't Transit City a Toronto project? How is the province to blame, unless they withheld funding, or unless something else changed to cause the province to be involved.  If anything, it really just shows uploading the province isn't a good idea.

[jamincan]

In fairness to McGuinty, he was only in office for another year after Toronto reinstated those LRT lines, and all evidence points to progress being made in that time. It was really with Wynne's government that stuff seemed to grind to a halt. Glen Murray certainly had vision, but wasn't really around long enough to do anything about it. Del Duca realized that it was far easier to have press conferences announcing stuff than to actually accomplish anything.

[Spokes]

I thought I've made it pretty clear many times, but, again, in a nutshell:

• Toronto transit planing agency Metrolinx (ML) ordered 182 Light Rail Vehicles (LRV's) from Bombardier - which Bombardier essentially "invented" just for Toronto, knowing they could land a huge order (wise move).  They plucked their FLEXITY 2 from Europe, tweaked the design for North America, and called it FLEXITY Freedom.
  
• These 182 vehicles were ordered for the 7 "Transit City" LRT lines in Toronto.
  
• On his first day in office, Rob Ford cancelled all but 1 of these lines (Eglinton Crosstown, or ECT) - leaving ML with far too many LRV's.
  
• The Region, meanwhile, (smartly) said "hey, we need 14 LRV's... we'll take some of those" - ML happily obliged.  14 of the 182 were shifted from ML being the customer to the Region of Waterloo (ROW).
  
• ML was on the hook for providing the "Specialized Equipment" for these LRV's - the safety and singling system by which the LRV communicates with the wayside (trackside) stuff, like signals and crossing arms and so on.
  
• Meanwhile, the design of the ECT changed significantly from a surface route to mostly subway, at Rob Ford's direction, causing a huge delay.  ML had no need for trains on the original timeline and didn't submit any further specifications to Bombardier - knowing that they would have nowhere to physically put the trains, had Bombardier built them on the original schedule.
  
• Meanwhile, ROW desperately needs trains - but Bombardier was stuck in the middle.  They had no spec to build to, and couldn't help us out.
  
• ML wanted out of the 182 LRV order - and couldn't get out of it, because it was a contract, so sued BBD for breach of contract, hoping to get out of it.
  
• The judge sided with Bombardier, but a new contract was formed, around the actual number of LRV's that ML needed for Crosstown.
  
• Meanwhile, an in-cab singling system still hadn't been selected or developed.  The Region was now about a year behind in opening ION.
  
• Frantic, the Region worked with Bombardier and Grandlinq to source an off-the-shelf solution, which they did.  Bombardier has been working closely and offering help installing this equipment for the Region, sending tools and personnel from Millhaven to speed up work, having it done here.
  
• Now we are here.
  

THANK YOU for this!  I've always been a little unclear on a lot of the details and trying to sort through it all is tough.

[Canard]

I didn't realize the region was purchasing some of Metrolinx's allotment of LRVs rather than adding a separate order of 14 onto the original contract.

Yeah, I'm sketchy on the details of the commercial side of things, but I think what happened is everyone agreed that "No, you still have to buy 182 of these things" but they were kind of sub-tendered to us.

It's why the paper sheets that come with our trains all still say Metrolinx or ML.

[ijmorlan]

Rob Ford is to blame for just under 2 years of delay. Dalton McGuinty gets the blame for the rest.

It’s kind of funny. Right wingers are constantly referring to the Liberals as some sort of criminal enterprise (e.g., “McGuilty”, etc.) which of course is absurd; but they actually did do something big wrong. The thing they did wrong, though, is something most right wingers probably support: obfuscating and delaying public transit!

So I'm confused here, wasn't Transit City a Toronto project? How is the province to blame, unless they withheld funding, or unless something else changed to cause the province to be involved.  If anything, it really just shows uploading the province isn't a good idea.

I’m not totally clear. It was a Toronto proposal, but a Metrolinx project. I’m now thinking that the province promised funding, on the basis that they would be Metrolinx projects — rather than sending grants to the City. I think.

My impression is that they just didn’t move on the projects, as a way of keeping spending off the books. I don’t believe there was ever an explicit public decision not to proceed, or even to delay; they just didn’t keep moving on the projects as one would have expected.

[Pheidippides]

Does GrandLinq/GRT/Region of Waterloo need a Railway Operating Certificate from Transport Canada? If so, when would that be issued?

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/rail....html#rocr

Who needs a Railway Operating Certificate?
All companies that fall under the authority of the Railway Safety Act are required to obtain a Railway Operating Certificate. This includes:

• federal railway companies, who must also hold a Certificate of Fitness from the Canadian Transportation Agency; and
  
• local railway companies, which include provincially-regulated shortlines, light rail transit, and tourist trains that operate equipment on federally-regulated tracks.
  

We might need a Railway Operating Certificate because we operate equipment on federally-regulated tracks (GEXR  Waterloo Spur, and adjacent to GEXR Huron Spur). Edmonton, Calgary and the TTC don't need one because all their trackage is not federally regulated.

Did we ever reach a conclusion on whether the Ion needs a Railway Operating Certificate or Certificate of Fitness because of the spur? If so, can they even apply before the system (lights, bells, arms, etc.) are tuned and working properly?

According to the FAQ it can take up to 120 days.

How long does it take to obtain a Railway Operating Certificate?
Transport Canada has 120 days, from when the complete application is received, to decide whether to issue, refuse to issue or place terms and conditions on a company's Railway Operating Certificate.

[Canard]

Anyone know if there is any testing happening today or tomorrow?

[danbrotherston]

Anyone know if there is any testing happening today or tomorrow?

I saw a train heading south at Victoria Park station this morning at 8:50.

[urbd]

Anyone know if there is any testing happening today or tomorrow?

I saw a train heading south at Victoria Park station this morning at 8:50.

I saw this same train (probably) passing Uptown around 8:30 am.