General Road and Highway Discussion

[Viewfromthe42]

Living at Peppler and Bridgeport, if you compare the grocery/pharmacy/service/food options located in UpTown vs. near Bridgeport and Weber, I choose every one in UpTown over Weber, because of how unpleasant a walk or drive it is. But I'd like to have a freer sense of choice.

As for capacity, I drive rush hour on both, and three/four lanes is not needed. There are many cars, but they are fixed in the right two lanes. Heading to 85, Erb sees almost no one in the left lane, and by Weber folks are merging into solely the rightmost of three lanes. Approaching Weber, King, and Erb, Bridgeport sees this same effect.

[MidTowner]

And you'd be wrong. The size of the front yard easements tell the story. They were planned to be wide streets from day one.

Oh, you're right, that's true.

Edit: Actually, thinking about it, this might not be true. I'm willing to admit if I'm wrong if anyone remembers or has a source, but I've always thought that the houses were closer to the street than would be expected from houses of this age, as if the right of way had been expanded. I'm not sure.

Huh, where does that come from? I don't see anyone suggesting making those streets one way.

You brought those streets up, and I'm not sure what you were suggesting. I guess you mean zoning, though we weren't talking about that. It's not because these streets are residential that they should be converted to two-way. It's because two-way is much better for walkability, and there is too much capacity here for the traffic volume. Erb and Bridgeport are terrible experiences near Weber, too, where they are predominantly commercial. What would you like to see happen to these streets? Unless the answer is "for cars to move as fast as possible," it won't happen while they remain a one-way pair too big for the traffic they carry.

[BuildingScout]

You brought those streets up, and I'm not sure what you were suggesting. I guess you mean zoning, though we weren't talking about that. It's not because these streets are residential that they should be converted to two-way. It's because two-way is much better for walkability, and there is too much capacity here for the traffic volume. Erb and Bridgeport are terrible experiences near Weber, too, where they are predominantly commercial. What would you like to see happen to these streets? Unless the answer is "for cars to move as fast as possible," it won't happen while they remain a one-way pair too big for the traffic they carry.

Oh I agree with you that the present state is not good, and that two way streets are generally preferable.

All I'm saying is that Erb and Bridgeport are such a mess that just making them two ways won't make a noticeable difference. No one will walk on them, no one will park on them, they are thoroughfares thru and thru, regardless of one-way or two-way status.

[MidTowner]

Oh I agree with you that the present state is not good, and that two way streets are generally preferable.

All I'm saying is that Erb and Bridgeport are such a mess that just making them two ways won't make a noticeable difference. No one will walk on them, no one will park on them, they are thoroughfares thru and thru, regardless of one-way or two-way status.

I guess I have to concede that, east of Weber, there's going to be much chance of street life no matter the configuration. I think that their being two way would spur on redevelopment faster (not that that's in the cards any time soon anyway).

West of Weber, I think that two way conversion would really add value.

[jamincan]

Looking at those traffic counts, it doesn't seem that Bridgeport and Erb combined are out of line with other major 4-lane arterials like University or Westmount or Victoria. I don't see why they need six lanes between them. Dropping a lane on each would have a minimal impact imo. The biggest improvement would be for cyclists - 2-way traffic would slow vehicles down and eliminating a lane would free up the other for separated bike lanes.

[ookpik]

Many of those bungalows date back to at least the '40s. The roads were likely converted to one way in the 1950s, when that was the craze. It was almost certainly a case of turning a two-way residential street to a four lane one-way, rather than the other way around.

FWIW the conversion to one-way occurred in the early 1970s. I still remember it, especially the Sunday (IIRC) morning when the switch took place. Despite lots of publicity and ample signage I recall seeing a driver turn west onto Erb from Weber only to be greeted by a phalanx of drivers coming at him from Uptown.

[BuildingScout]

West of Weber, I think that two way conversion would really add value.

Yes, I've advocated for a full removal of zoning restrictions on Erb St from Regina to the West.

[Drake]

I like the loop as it is. I can't imagine the traffic chaos at Bridgeport/Caroline/Erb & the LRT if Erb was two ways. I also cannot imagine how Bridgeport and Erb would merge together at the other end prior to the expressway entrance/exits.

I think if the city starts monkeying around with two ways there will be several spin off problems that will not improve the overall situation.

[schooner77]

I actually lived in lower Hamilton, (we just called it Hamilton, everything above was called the Mountain) and we appreciated the one way corridor. The lights were timed and the speed was constant, not a drag strip because you would escape the flow. After anything at Copps, the area clears quickly. Flow is east-west, with very few one way streets north-south, so access isn't difficult.

Hamilton does not have the luxury of having land to create an expressway in the city. The Linc on the Mountain was built, because there was land to do it. It isn't a matter of one or the other. A few one-way streets east-west to alleviate the cross city flow, while the expressway works on a north-south access.

[BuildingScout]

I like the loop as it is. I can't imagine the traffic chaos at Bridgeport/Caroline/Erb & the LRT if Erb was two ways. I also cannot imagine how Bridgeport and Erb would merge together at the other end prior to the expressway entrance/exits.

I can because that part used to two ways until rather recently (like 15 years ago). Caroline went North until Albert at which point you had to turn into Albert St. The concrete median in there was originally built for that purpose: to force NorthEast bound cars to turn into Albert and not proceed into Bridgeport.

I can't remember exactly what happened at the South end of Albert when it meets Erb though.  Any one else remembers that configuration?

[jamincan]

They could have Erb curve at Goldbeck Lane and meet Bridgeport at a signalized intersection. The section of Erb east of Goldbeck could then be closed and exchanged for the land presently being used as a parking lot off Goldbeck. This would also hopefully even out usage of Bridgeport and Erb so that one doesn't take the bulk of traffic.

[Canard]

Sidebar: I'm just curious, do you guys know all these road names by heart, or do you look at Google Maps while posting? Honest question - I've lived in Kitchener for 15 years and I have no idea what half the roads are you're talking about!

[mpd618]

The one way intersection of Erb and Albert is one of the worst things in uptown Waterloo. It makes it scary to walk along the north side of Erb, and cuts off the library and the Marsland Centre from the south side of Erb quite dramatically.

[Canard]

Not sure I follow - there are crosswalks at King and Caroline...? Or do you mean trying to cross that off-ramp where Albert (I think) starts out after branching off of Erb across from Angie's?

[MacBerry]

Chicago's complete streets guideline, for instance, states that streets carrying less than 25,000 vehicles a day should be one lane in each direction.

When are you leaving for Chicago?