ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[panamaniac]

Yes, I think the restored glockenspiel is going to be mounted at the end of Speakers Corner over by Halls Lane.

[ookpik]

FLEXITY Outlook deliveries in TO for a few months now; they should have received 40+ trains now, but only have 3 (maybe 4).

Are these what we're getting for our LRT? 

I rode one of the four currently in operation on the 510 Spadina line this weekend. The trains are great. Quiet, smooth, comfortable, etc. 

TTC fare collection sucked however. Perhaps it's because there are so few of these trains in operation and people are still unfamiliar with the procedures but they had a human at the fare vending machine on the train to explain to passengers how to purchase fares. I had a subway token in hand and needed help in figuring out how to pay for my fare with it. OTOH people with Presto cards just had to tap them on any of several sensors in each car.

[Canard]

They're similar, but not identical.  Notable differences:

Toronto's trains are narrower, and have wider trucks to accommodate the broader track gauge - meaning the wheel covers stick out (ugly).  Ours will be flush.
Toronto's trains do not have doors on both sides, ours will.
Toronto's trains are unidirectional - they only have a cab at one end.  Ours will have identical cars 1 and 5/the trains will be symmetric.
Toronto's trains have custom styling on the nose and tail cars.  Ours will have the standard design that is also being used on the Eglinton Crosstown.
Toronto's trains are using the legacy trolley pole for current collection, a 100+ year old design.  Ours will have modern, European-style Pantographs which are suitable for bidirectional operation.

From an interior standpoint, cars 2, 3 and 4 are very close to what we'll have.  Just a bit wider, and a different colour scheme, and doors on both sides.

Fare Collection is likely a nightmare in Toronto because this is the first time they've done POP, so Torontonians are not used to trying to figure out how to do it.  When LRT comes to Waterloo, the entire thing is a new concept, so people will adapt much quicker.

Here's a post I made last year about the TTC's FLEXITY Outlook vehicles: http://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/s...21#pid2021

[DHLawrence]

The city has promised to roll Presto out to the entire streetcar network by year-end, so payment should get easier. Won't be able to eliminate transfers entirely yet.

[jamincan]

The new TTC streetcars can actually use both a pantograph and trolley pole, however, before it can switch to using pantographs, the overhead wires have to be upgraded. If they were to simply use the existing system, the shoes on the pantograph would wear too quickly as the wire would run over the same spot the whole time.

[ookpik]

They're similar, but not identical.  Notable differences:

Thanks. 

One other difference I noted is a small height difference between platform level and car level. This is confirmed here:

Accessibility

Retrofitting is required to guarantee accessibility for all of our customers. This includes:
• Reconfiguring passenger platforms for ramp access;

 
Will ramps be necessary on our trains?

[Markster]

Our Flexitys will likely have ramp mechanisms, but I expect that the platforms will be built to allow level access anyway. The ramps would bridge the gap between train and platform.

[Canard]

I wouldn't be so sure - the ramps were designed in collaboration with the TTC specifically for their Outlook variant, due to the street-running nature of their system. Eglinton Crosstown's Freedom LFLRV's and ours are intended from the outset to use slightly elevated platforms.  It would actually surprise me if the Region did opt to ask Bombardier to equip our trains with the ramps.  The ramps won't bridge any gap between platform and train - the gap will be minor (a few centimetres), close enough that any wheeled vehicle can roll over it.  Deploying a ramp slightly to cover this minor gap at every stop as you suggest would be a logistics nightmare.

[clasher]

I think the St Clair Streetcars have level platforms to the trains but I haven't been on that line so I don't know if they use ramps or not. I remember there was a huge kerfuffle over reworking the ramps to the correct height but I think that was just Rob Ford and his shennanigans more than anything else.

[Canard]

None of the CLRV/ALRV's have ramps. The platforms on St Clair are the same as the rest of the system AFAIK...

[Viewfromthe42]

The one difference being, of course, that the cars on the St. Clair line all have platforms at every stop, all coming up to the same height and distance relative to the vehicle doors. While some stops on other streetcar lines in Toronto have platforms like this, many just stop in the street. This is where the ramps will be needed.

[ookpik]

While some stops on other streetcar lines in Toronto have platforms like this, many just stop in the street. This is where the ramps will be needed.

I saw a picture on the TTC website a few days ago that showed a ramp being used on a raised platform. That's why I asked if/why our cars will have ramps. I can't find that picture on the TTC site now. Presumably all of our station platforms will be at the same height level with the car floors such that ramps generally won't be required other than perhaps to bridge the gap between car and platform.

Nevertheless I suppose all cars should have at least one rampable door for emergency situations where passengers must exit directly to street level.

In other news, the G&M today reports, New Toronto streetcars to begin arriving in substantial numbers 

Bombardier, which has been plagued by delays and quality problems...

According to the TTC, a new agreement with Bombardier will mean that the Thunder Bay company will produce two streetcars per month, starting in March. By the fall, this should double to four per month. The new timetable means that the TTC should have 25 to 30 new streetcars by the end of the year.

[plam]

In other news, the G&M today reports, New Toronto streetcars to begin arriving in substantial numbers 

Bombardier, which has been plagued by delays and quality problems...

According to the TTC, a new agreement with Bombardier will mean that the Thunder Bay company will produce two streetcars per month, starting in March. By the fall, this should double to four per month. The new timetable means that the TTC should have 25 to 30 new streetcars by the end of the year.

I hope that's the case but I'll believe it when I see it (or read about the actual arrival of streetcars, anyway).

[clasher]

Here's a link to the St. Clair issue I was talking about: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/st...-1.1310149

[Canard]

Nevertheless I suppose all cars should have at least one rampable door for emergency situations where passengers must exit directly to street level.

In an emergency, the doors open, and the passengers step 10 centimetres down to the road surface.

As I stated before:

-The TTC's CLRV and ALRV fleet do not have ramps.  They have steps which lead up to a high floor.
-The St. Clair line was designed/built around the CLRV/ALRV design, not FLEXITY Outlook.
-The new FLEXITY Outlook vehicles the TTC has co-developed with Bombardier have one deployable ramp per train, which were custom designed for those trains.
-Those ramps can be deployed on demand in situations where the platform-to-train vertical rise is too much for a person with a mobility issue to navigate (one step up).
-The ramps could possibly, theoretically be retrofitted for use on FLEXITY Freedom (Crosstown, ion), but since the first two customers of those trains are using them in true-sense Light Rail applications designed from the onset for these specific trains with dedicated right-of-ways and proper-height flush platforms, there will be no need for any ramp to bridge between platform and train.


Look ma, no ramp!