General Road and Highway Discussion

[Canard]

Oh wow, maybe I’m wrong then? So is it illegal for trucks to pass on two-lane sections of 401? How I explained it is more-or-less what I remembered from Young Drivers, which was almost 20 years ago for me

[ijmorlan]

The rule for trucks on highways is as follows:

2 lanes: can occupy either lane; keep right except to pass (which they always seem to do at a 1 km/h speed delta, creating a massive clog behind them)
3 lanes: can occupy right two lanes. Cannot travel in leftmost lane.
4 lanes: can occupy right three lanes. Cannot travel in leftmost lane.
Etc.

I’ve noticed almost every-other day that trucks traveling WB at afternoon rush hour on 401 between 24 and 8 will jump into the left lane to bypass the slower traffic on the right. This is so incredibly dangerous and drives me nuts when I see them do it.

I’m a bit confused. You’re saying it’s dangerous for trucks to pass in the passing lane? I feel like I may be missing some specifics of the situation.

[danbrotherston]

Oh wow, maybe I’m wrong then? So is it illegal for trucks to pass on two-lane sections of 401? How I explained it is more-or-less what I remembered from Young Drivers, which was almost 20 years ago for me

Eh...legalese is hard to parse...I think there is an exception buried in there somewhere, or rather, criteria that probably make it legal on four lane roads.

My main point was that there is required to be a sign that indicates it...I don't recall seeing the sign on the four lane sections.

To be honest, when I went to drivers ed, I was never given this as a rule at all, and was only told that trucks are allowed everywhere there was no sign restricting them...although, truck drivers seem to respect the ones on the highway far more reliably than the ones in my neighbourhood...so perhaps I shouldn't have been surprised that the legal force behind them is different.

[jamincan]

Thanks for the link. As for whether they can use the left lane on a four-lane roadway, subsection 1 states "...of those portions of a highway described in the Schedules." If you then scroll down, it exhaustively lists precisely those parts of the highway network that the regulation applies to. I didn't read it too closely, but it seems to be all the parts of the 400 network that are 6 or more lines (ie. not Hwy 7/8 west of where it narrows to 4 lanes, not the 406 etc.)

[timio]

Regardless, we're now quite off topic. Any mod can move the above to general roads and highways.

[KevinT]

I’ve noticed almost every-other day that trucks traveling WB at afternoon rush hour on 401 between 24 and 8 will jump into the left lane to bypass the slower traffic on the right. This is so incredibly dangerous and drives me nuts when I see them do it.

That's because the traffic on the right are idiots that don't realize they can take the Hwy 8 ramp at highway speeds, and inexplicably slow down to 60 km/h at least a kilometre before they even get to the ramp.  I can't fault the truckers continuing westbound for not having the patience to deal with said idiots and going around them, I certainly don't have it...  :-)

[timio]

^ sigh...

[Canard]

Yup Kevin, or people that NEED to squish into the right lane, (incorrectly) thinking it’s the only way to get to 8.... when really, traffic would flow perfectly smoothly if everyone in the right lane shifted over at the exit, then people in the centre lane shifted into the right lane which splits....

But, people are dumb... and I have brought this up before:

http://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/s...8#pid37268

http://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/s...7#pid37267

...and have tried to explain the reverse in others:

http://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/s...0#pid20870

[danbrotherston]

The Moving Forward transportation plan is going to the P&W committee at the next meeting:

https://calendar.regionofwaterloo.ca/Cou...202018.pdf

Not much appears to have changed from what was presented at the last PIC. To be honest, I'm still rather disappointed. It makes very little movement towards more AT or transit from the previous plan, and while some may feel that the previous plan was already good, the reality on the ground is very bad right now. Possibly it's not reflective of what the plan actually has in it, but I'm still not convinced.

[jamincan]

I'm not sure if it's just a temporary side-effect of the heavier load on the Ottawa Street interchange, but I'm starting to have safety concerns with it. I've been noticing that the exit from the north-bound parkway backs up significantly. With the sound barriers blocking sight lines, this means that traffic often comes around the gentle curve in the exit at highway speeds only to find stopped cars lined up a short distance ahead. There have been a number of close calls this week, it's only a matter of time that someone gets rammed from behind at highway speed.

A lot of people have also started using Nottingham and Manchester as shortcuts to the northern end of Rosemount. It is obvious that planners were trying to discourage this when designing that neighbourhood, but it happens nevertheless. I'm not sure if the answer is to take measures to further discourage through traffic on Manchester, or to accommodate it due to heavy traffic at either end. The status quo isn't very satisfying.

*RANT START*

I was waiting to turn left onto Nottingham this evening and had 4 or 5 cars stop in the left oncoming lane to wave me through, all the while traffic continuing at full speed in the right hand lane. Follow the rules of the road, people! If there is room for you to continue, continue. If you can't clear the intersection due to traffic being stopped ahead, stop clear of the intersection. Never, ever, wave someone through against the rules of the road. You're slowing everyone down by doing that and creating a significant hazard in the process. It's not polite to direct someone into oncoming traffic.

*END RANT*

[danbrotherston]

...

*RANT START*

I was waiting to turn left onto Nottingham this evening and had 4 or 5 cars stop in the left oncoming lane to wave me through, all the while traffic continuing at full speed in the right hand lane. Follow the rules of the road, people! If there is room for you to continue, continue. If you can't clear the intersection due to traffic being stopped ahead, stop clear of the intersection. Never, ever, wave someone through against the rules of the road. You're slowing everyone down by doing that and creating a significant hazard in the process. It's not polite to direct someone into oncoming traffic.

*END RANT*

As a cyclist, this drives me INSANE.  How many cyclists have been hit in these situations and then been blamed.

I even had a police officer (I *think* it was Chief Larkin, but I only saw him for a few seconds), do this to me in a private vehicle.  A black SUV stopped in one lane of a four lane road with a ped refuge island and waved me through, and I angrily gestured for him to continue.  He pulled up to the island and the window came down, and he said "I was waving you through."...and I was a bit startled, but absolutely on point, immediately replied "not only is that illegal, but when I go through and get hit by a car in the other lane, you'll be the one to find me at fault for the collision".  He had nothing to say after that.

Frankly, as a cyclist, this is the single most stupid thing well meaning people do.  You're not helping, and don't get angry when I'm upset that you're endangering my life because you're not thinking.  Worst of all, half the time they do it, they actually cause the gap I might have been able to turn or cross in to disappear...I've been delayed 2-3 minutes half a dozen times this week because of this very behaviour.

**END RANT**

[ijmorlan]

...

*RANT START*

I was waiting to turn left onto Nottingham this evening and had 4 or 5 cars stop in the left oncoming lane to wave me through, all the while traffic continuing at full speed in the right hand lane. Follow the rules of the road, people! If there is room for you to continue, continue. If you can't clear the intersection due to traffic being stopped ahead, stop clear of the intersection. Never, ever, wave someone through against the rules of the road. You're slowing everyone down by doing that and creating a significant hazard in the process. It's not polite to direct someone into oncoming traffic.

*END RANT*

As a cyclist, this drives me INSANE.  How many cyclists have been hit in these situations and then been blamed.

All too true. I would however point out that this behaviour points towards an opportunity. In places where there is only a single lane of traffic, vehicle drivers can usefully yield to active transportation, and many want to do so and will do so (as shown by the fact that they do so even when and where it is unhelpful).

So if some of our too-wide roads are strategically rebuilt as two-lane roads with a median, they will become much easier for pedestrians and cyclists to cross. I long believe that King St. at the tracks was a perfect example: given how many people attempted to yield to me when it was 4 lanes, even though it was not helpful, how well would it have worked if there were 2 lanes separated by a median? Of course now we have a signal, but in some ways that is not as good because it doesn’t allow people to go when there is no conflicting traffic.

But yeah. If it’s not helpful and safe to yield, please don’t.

[embe]

I'm not sure if it's just a temporary side-effect of the heavier load on the Ottawa Street interchange, but I'm starting to have safety concerns with it. I've been noticing that the exit from the north-bound parkway backs up significantly. With the sound barriers blocking sight lines, this means that traffic often comes around the gentle curve in the exit at highway speeds only to find stopped cars lined up a short distance ahead. There have been a number of close calls this week, it's only a matter of time that someone gets rammed from behind at highway speed.

Yeah, there is definitely a higher load on these areas. What boggles me is the amount of trucks (Tractor trailers/Semis) trying to figure a way out due to the Victoria bridge/Wellington ramps being closed as well.  The side-streets/detours obviously weren't designed for that type of traffic.  Close calls are a regular basis

[goggolor]

I was crossing Columbia St at the Laurel Trail (where there is a median) last year on my bike when a GRT bus driver stopped in the outside lane, trying to be helpful. But due to the height and length of the bus, this meant I was unable to see any oncoming traffic on the inside lane. When I didn't immediately bike across the street and motioned for him to continue, he then *stuck his hand out the window* in an ineffective attempt to have the other oncoming traffic also stop. Eventually he moved on and I was able to cross, a few minutes later than if he hadn't tried to help.

I also had a motorist give me the finger after he tried to wave me through out of order at a 4-way stop (where I would have been turning in front of him) and I said "Go ahead, it's your turn - we should all follow the rules right?" This was in front of his young child in the front seat... I thought I was setting a good example but that evidently wasn't important to him.

[rangersfan]

Franklin Bvld over the 401 set to close for bridge replacement.

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/mobile/fran...-1.3930656