Highway 7 - Kitchener to Guelph

[timio]

Nothing really to read there except typical media negativity garbage filth.

I think this is a very dangerous attitude to have.  Sure, there is a lot of smut/reaction reporting out there that is only published to garner some sort of negative reaction, but there are still quality journalists and news reporters who are trying their hardest to present facts clearly and get their voices heard over the smut.

Grouping them all together does nothing to help the society that is being told to distrust the media by the idiots who don't like how they look with the light of facts shining on them.

[Coke6pk]

So apologies if this has been asked/explained elsewhere... but everytime I drive by this area I have the same question.

How do we build the two Wellington/Shirley connector roads under the railway without disrupting our (hopefully increased) service? Every other overpasses I have witnessed being constructed, the railway snakes around until the underpass is built then rail lines straightened out. With this one, there is a highway bridge that prevents just moving the line off to the side.

I assume they may just close one of the two doubled lines at a time, but having excavation work that close to the second line I would of assumed as being risky.

Any experts?

Coke

[ijmorlan]

So apologies if this has been asked/explained elsewhere... but everytime I drive by this area I have the same question.

How do we build the two Wellington/Shirley connector roads under the railway without disrupting our (hopefully increased) service?  Every other overpasses I have witnessed being constructed, the railway snakes around until the underpass is built then rail lines straightened out.  With this one, there is a highway bridge that prevents just moving the line off to the side.

I assume they may just close one of the two doubled lines at a time, but having excavation work that close to the second line I would of assumed as being risky.

Any experts?

Coke

Not an expert, but interested. There are lots of ways of building bridges and tunnels in difficult situations. One approach is to build the tunnel structure and then shove it in place under whatever is on top, thereby avoiding significant interruption to what is on top. I don’t know if they can literally ram the tunnel in without interrupting service, or if they can perform ramming operations when train service isn’t running, but I have definitely heard of this sort of operation being done. Another potential technique might be to close the track for a long weekend, remove the portion of track above where the tunnel will go, pour a reinforced concrete slab, and re-instate the track. Then complete the rest of the project by working under the concrete slab. This technique might be doable one track at a time, which could avoid any complete closure of the line.

It would take an actual engineering study to assess the feasibility of these ideas in this circumstance, and of course an actual civil engineer would have other methods at hand that they could choose.

[Canard]

I think this is a very dangerous attitude to have.

Is it really, though?

I'm a very, very positive, optimistic person who always looks for the good in things.

All I see out of local media is negativity, hate, garbage and filth aimed at throwing everyone they can under the bus, to get people as pissed off as possible.

When CTV interviewed me on camera when I was down taking pictures of 501 arriving in Cambridge, nice pretty lady and super-polite camera man were all happy and pleasant at first.. and as soon as the camera turned off, their attitudes changed completely and they both told me they had no use for the project at all.  Totally worthless human beings.

I have no use for people like that in my life and am happy to blissfully ignore it, smile, and move on.  

[KevinT]

So apologies if this has been asked/explained elsewhere... but everytime I drive by this area I have the same question.

How do we build the two Wellington/Shirley connector roads under the railway without disrupting our (hopefully increased) service?  Every other overpasses I have witnessed being constructed, the railway snakes around until the underpass is built then rail lines straightened out.  With this one, there is a highway bridge that prevents just moving the line off to the side.

I assume they may just close one of the two doubled lines at a time, but having excavation work that close to the second line I would of assumed as being risky.

Any experts?

Coke

I suspect they'll do it the way the West Toronto Diamond (aka The Junction) was done, pre-building tunnel sections and then ramming them under the tracks in a 24 hour period.  This article summarize that project and gives an aerial view:

http://dailycommercialnews.com/en-US/Inf...-1001713W/

[timc]

I'm a very, very positive, optimistic person who always looks for the good in things.

All I see out of local media is negativity, hate, garbage and filth aimed at throwing everyone they can under the bus, to get people as pissed off as possible.

When a needed highway project is still not completed after thirty years of planning, has been used as a political piece in two elections (and will feature in next year's too!), has no end in sight, and is costing us an undisclosed amount of money, I think a bit of negativity is warranted.

[panamaniac]

I'm scratching my head over the perceived "negativity" of the article. It seems pretty factual to me, or am I missing something?

[jeffster]

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/754...-drags-on/

Speculation, or is this delay hot-off-the-press? 

Hoping the local infrastructure (ramp work) keeps moving ahead, should be something they can work on independent of the overall schedule. 

Side note: Until something viable is set up on Wellington I don't see how they can shut down Victoria st bridge for a year.  Frederick st bridge will be a bottle-neck unless they open it back up to 4 lanes again.

I'm guessing that in April of next year that their will be an announcement that this highway will be taking priority and that it will be complete by "x" date. Working will begin within a month or 2.

I only say that because it's an election year in 2018 and this area holds, what, 7 electoral seats? (5 in Waterloo Region and 2 in Wellington-Guelph)

Make a huge promise, hope to win.

[Markster]

I'm guessing that in April of next year that their will be an announcement that this highway will be taking priority and that it will be complete by "x" date. Working will begin within a month or 2.

But how can work begin in a month or 2, when work began last year?

[jeffster]

I'm guessing that in April of next year that their will be an announcement that this highway will be taking priority and that it will be complete by "x" date. Working will begin within a month or 2.

But how can work begin in a month or 2, when work began last year?

What I mean by that, is speeding up on the work. Basically having more crews working on it at once.

[SammyOES2]

Jeffster, nothing much has changed or been delayed. It's been generally following the schedule laid out and the work/plan for the next few years has been laid out already. Any election has nothing to do with it - more detailed work generally happens after initial work (although it doesn't look much exciting will be happening in 2018 - mostly prepping various sites).

Here's the 2015-2019 Southern Highways Program: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/highway...5-2019.pdf

7N Planned Victoria St. Bridge, Kitchener Municipal utility relocations - 2016
7N Planned Victoria St. Bridge, Kitchener Bridge replacement - 2017
7N Planned Shirley Avenue, Kitchener Realignment / utility relocations - 2016
7N Planned Kitchener to Guelph New four-lane highway - Beyond 2019

Here's the 2017-2021 Souther Highways Program: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/highway...7-2021.pdf

7N Underway Victoria St. Bridge, Kitchener Municipal utility relocations - 2017
7N Planned Victoria St. Bridge, Kitchener Interchange improvements / bridge replacement - 2019
7N Underway Shirley Ave., Kitchener Realignment / utility relocations - 2017
7N Planned Clearing and Fencing, Kitchener to Guelph Clearing and fencing - 2018
7N Planned Grand River Bridges, Kitchener New bridges - 2020
7N Planned Kitchener to Guelph New four-lane highway - Beyond 2021

Maybe you could argue that Beyond 2021 is a delay from Beyond 2019 - but nobody reasonable would look at the 2015-2019 work/dates and think that the highway was going to be done by 2021.

[Viewfromthe42]

Feels a bit like telling your kid that they'll get their driver's licence "beyond age 10" one day, and then "beyond age 12" the next, even though from birth you knew they wouldn't get it any earlier than age 16. I'm guessing any report probably uses 4y timeframes, so a report from 2015 might use "beyond 2019" as its framework, and a 2017 report might use "beyond 2021" as its framework, and even back in 2015 the completion date was likely 2022 or later.

As for the questions about journalists, Jeff Outhit has usually been kept away from transit files after being a flagrantly biased writer on the subject. He's a massive autophile, and doesn't believe in transit, to the point where he saw no issue disparaging it in reviews without having even taken the time to ride a single bus to gain journalistic integrity on the subject matter.

[Smore]

What is the quantitative evidence that a 4lane, divided highway is even necessary for this route?

[Canard]

Have you ever driven between Guelph and KW between 7am and 8pm?

[SammyOES2]

Its also not just about pure volume/congestion.  It's extremely disruptive to people/businesses along that route w/o nearby stop lights and while I don't drive the route all that often I regularly see people make very dangerous turns in front of traffic because they're tired of waiting for a safe opportunity.

It's also a route that has been targeted for large new developments - so the current situation is going to get significantly worse.