Trails

[Canard]

That sounds like them, Kevin:

"the Smithsonian Institution describes them as “non-biting flies, no bigger than a few grains of salt, are attracted to fluids secreted by your eyes”

Eww.

[panamaniac]

Rarely-seen Waterloo Trail Cooties .....

[Pheidippides]

I just noticed that the now closed public consultation about the central promenade in Waterloo Park generated a total of...6 responses; I don't know if the in person session was well attended or generated a lot of responses or not.

I suspect that frequenters of this site are likely more engaged in their community than average so this forum is a bit of a skewed baseline to draw comparisons from, but to me the lack of engagement is really sad.

Waterloo Park is such a central feature for the whole city. Its final layout will determine how the community interacts with the space and each other in that space, or passing through that space (as a transportation feature/destination), for generations.

It is a bit disappointing that the final layout and features will largely be determined by a private consultant with some direction from city staff and that community concerns or ideas will not be a part of the process. I think it is huge leap to assume that lack of feedback is equivalent to consenting to the plans as is; most probably haven't even heard of the plans let alone thought deeply about them.

What are staff going to do with the information that was collected? It is hardly a large enough sample to alter the original proposals, but they can't just ignore the input either.

[Canard]

So my inclination is that the consultation wasn't done correctly then. If people didn't respond, they either didn't know about it or it was too difficult/annoying to give feedback.

I didn't even know about this - although I feel like I already did a survey at a different looking webpage about Waterloo park. So it's all disjointed and confusing.

[jamincan]

I think Canard is right. I'm a member of a running group that regularly uses the park, and I don't think any of them were aware about this until they started construction. I don't remember any signage either, despite running in the park regularly over the winter. Not to say it wasn't there, but that if it was, it was poorly located or not obvious.

[Canard]

Region plans trail linking transit hub, Iron Horse Trail - The Record

[rangersfan]

Looking forward to seeing the trails proposed routes. Hopefully the trail is as direct as possible.

[KevinL]

Looking forward to seeing the trails proposed routes. Hopefully the trail is as direct as possible.

My understanding is they'd like to run it directly along the CN tracks, but the approvals there are probably more lengthy than the time they have to apply for the grant. So less direct routes are being investigated.

[clasher]

Exciting news on the trial, I hope it works out for a direct connection.

[tomh009]

Looking forward to seeing the trails proposed routes. Hopefully the trail is as direct as possible.

I think a few hundred metres longer is fine if it results in a better trail.

[danbrotherston]

Looking forward to seeing the trails proposed routes. Hopefully the trail is as direct as possible.

I think a few hundred metres longer is fine if it results in a better trail.

"Better" is not a well defined term.   For some, shorter *is* better, for others, more scenic and meandering is better, for others, quieter is better.  Balancing all needs isn't easy.

From my perspective, this is intended to be a commuting trail.  I would set priorities as:

(0. Paved---I hope this is a given).
1.  Speed/Directness/Speed of crossing major barriers.
2.  Separation from cars.
3.  Lighted (although given the IHT isn't, this is future thinking).
4.  Anything else.

But I recognize that other's may have different priorities.

[tomh009]

Given that the difference in length is 200m or less, I would personally accept that if it provides significantly better separation from car traffic, and/or easier crossing of major streets. Basically I'm looking for better usability as the priority, as 200m is only a few minutes by foot, and less than a minute by bicycle.

[KevinL]

Looking over the maps it seems that, if the railway corridor is mainly ruled out, then a good route would be:

• From the Iron Horse at Gage, take Raddatz Park along the north side of the creek to the end of Waverly.
  
• Take Waverly to Strange. Yes, this will have to be on-street; I'm not familiar with the traffic here or how problematic this might be.
  
• Cross Strange into Cherry Park. Maybe reconfigure the parking lot so the trail is unimpeded. Upgrade the existing park trail, and follow it to Park and Stewart.
  
• Cross Park and run the trail along the south side of Stewart; there's only one driveway here, for the Home Hardware parking, and the trail can be kept mostly separate from traffic.
  
• Here's where things get tricky. Expropriate a slice of the Home Hardware lumber yard (hopefully no need to touch the structure) and bring the trail over the Huron Spur (uh oh, railway approvals needed). Then, use a thin slice of the former Kitchener works yard to get the trail to the UW lands and King Street.
  

Just a quick assemblage of segments, but I think it could be doable. Thoughts?

[danbrotherston]

Looking over the maps it seems that, if the railway corridor is mainly ruled out, then a good route would be:

• From the Iron Horse at Gage, take Raddatz Park along the north side of the creek to the end of Waverly.
  
• Take Waverly to Strange. Yes, this will have to be on-street; I'm not familiar with the traffic here or how problematic this might be.
  
• Cross Strange into Cherry Park. Maybe reconfigure the parking lot so the trail is unimpeded. Upgrade the existing park trail, and follow it to Park and Stewart.
  
• Cross Park and run the trail along the south side of Stewart; there's only one driveway here, for the Home Hardware parking, and the trail can be kept mostly separate from traffic.
  
• Here's where things get tricky. Expropriate a slice of the Home Hardware lumber yard (hopefully no need to touch the structure) and bring the trail over the Huron Spur (uh oh, railway approvals needed). Then, use a thin slice of the former Kitchener works yard to get the trail to the UW lands and King Street.
  

Just a quick assemblage of segments, but I think it could be doable. Thoughts?

That is definitely a good guess as to the routing, and is probably one of the more realistic options.

The traffic on Waverly is.....no terrible, but there are a few blind corners as well as a lot of parking for the school nearby.  I've never liked riding it when coming along Gage, but it's probably acceptable.

My personal preference would be...creative...to say the least.  Basically, I'd like to run the trail segregated all the way up Victoria St. to King, where it can meet the planned MUTs on King up to the station.

How could this work given there is zero space available on Victoria?  Simple.  In my opinion at least, the northern-most Southbound (Westbound) lane (go Kitchener directions) is used almost exclusively for vehicles turning right on Park.  Instead disallow right turns on Park at Victoria, and instead route cars up Joseph and in behind.

The region (or city) already owns most (or even all) of that space for their parking lot.  It might not even require much paving, just reconfiguring to allow all Park northbound destined traffic to be routed there instead of along Victoria.  I then argue you can use that entire lane for a two way trail along the north side.

Past Joseph I think there is sufficient ROW next to the parking lots and UW buildings to build the trail in the ROW.

Finally South (West) of Park St., combine the bike lanes into a trail on one side, and provide the (already needed) crossing at the IHT to allow bikes to continue South (West) on Victoria past the IHT.

This is my personal preference, but I doubt it will happen.

[Viewfromthe42]

I think (rightly) that the aim for this trail is to make a north-of-Victoria connection. The IHT bulges away from the transit terminal itself, so there is some logic in having connections a bit shorter in distance but farther from Victoria itself. Coming from the south, between Queen/King, or Victoria Park/Water/King, there's already a pretty effective routing for bikes (I take it myself). This connection, if located a bit north of Victoria along any alignment near to what's been described, would help with connections from the north side (gasp! so close to Waterloo! Why should a Kitchener trail be designed to benefit Waterloo? *rabblerabblerabble*).