ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[Markster]

WRT to the left turn at the bike box.  The region has indicated that right turns on red at bike boxes are prohibited, I would assume left turns on red are similarly prohibited.  Of course, given that this is not marked anywhere, nobody really knows, and everyone turns anyway.

As both a cyclist and a driver, I had no idea that this is a thing they claim.
Ultimately, if they don't have "no right(/left) on red" signs, then it's just talk, and no action.

[Canard]

I wondered about this, and actually had this conversation with my spouse while sitting waiting at a red light on Bridgeport, at Erb, in the left lane, to turn left onto Erb (we were exploring the newly-opened intersection ).

When doing this same left turn previously, I always questioned if I was allowed to turn Left on a Red, here, because it's One-way to One-way. I vaguely remember this in driver's school as being "OK" but I hate doing it so I would never do it, and just wait for green. The only times I've ever done it is when someone's behind me and I can see in my rear-view mirror that they're annoyed because I'm not turning, and then I'd very reluctantly do it.

With the Bike Box there now, you sit so far back from the intersection that it kind of makes sense that there should just be "no turns at all on Red" if you're behind a bike box. Is that the idea with them, then? Or is it permitted only if there are no cyclists in the bike box?

On a side note, as a cyclist, I would never feel comfortable using a Bike Box. I'll always wait my turn in traffic.

[Markster]

When doing this same left turn previously, I always questioned if I was allowed to turn Left on a Red, here, because it's One-way to One-way.  I vaguely remember this in driver's school as being "OK" but I hate doing it so I would never do it, and just wait for green.  The only times I've ever done it is when someone's behind me and I can see in my rear-view mirror that they're annoyed because I'm not turning, and then I'd very reluctantly do it.

It is absolutely legal!
I find excuses to do it whenever I can! It's fun doing something out of the ordinary.
Also.... I may be that impatient person behind you. Though, I try to keep my frustration contained inside, and not be a jerk.

The bike box being so far set back from the intersection seems to basically invite cars to drive through it and wait on the far side to try to make their left turn on red.

On a side note, as a cyclist, I would never feel comfortable using a Bike Box.  I'll always wait my turn in traffic.

Honestly, that bike box there feels particularly useless. It is only useful for turning left from Caroline to Erb, but... where are these cyclists coming from that they would want to do that turn?
*) If you're coming from the Laurel Trail, then the intersection already assumes you don't exist, as there is no sane(/legal) way to get to the bike box.
*) If you're coming down Caroline, then... you just came from Bridgeport? Why are you turning around? Shouldn't you be taking a different route to your destination?
*) Did you come from Albert? There are less terrifying and hilly ways to get to King/Erb than going via Caroline.

[clasher]

I've got so used to avoiding this intersection that I think I'll just continue using the lights at FDB to get back on the trail. I also don't use bike boxes, I prefer to take the lane if there is a danger of right hooks but I also wonder how much cyclist traffic uses Bridgeport, or is the idea that riders will come off the trail and use the bike box instead of just riding through the crosswalk and onto the new MUP beside the tracks?

[Canard]

I really wonder if they've just created another Victoria & Strange/West Ave. trail situation - I always bike through the intersection there but almost everyone else I see just cuts through Lai Lai/City Café, despite the signs saying otherwise. What I mean is - I wonder if we'll just see people cutting across traffic on Erb instead of using the two-stage crosswalk.

[ijmorlan]

When doing this same left turn previously, I always questioned if I was allowed to turn Left on a Red, here, because it's One-way to One-way.  I vaguely remember this in driver's school as being "OK" but I hate doing it so I would never do it, and just wait for green.  The only times I've ever done it is when someone's behind me and I can see in my rear-view mirror that they're annoyed because I'm not turning, and then I'd very reluctantly do it.

It is absolutely legal!
I find excuses to do it whenever I can!  It's fun doing something out of the ordinary.
Also.... I may be that impatient person behind you.  Though, I try to keep my frustration contained inside, and not be a jerk.

The bike box being so far set back from the intersection seems to basically invite cars to drive through it and wait on the far side to try to make their left turn on red.

On a side note, as a cyclist, I would never feel comfortable using a Bike Box.  I'll always wait my turn in traffic.

Honestly, that bike box there feels particularly useless.  It is only useful for turning left from Caroline to Erb, but... where are these cyclists coming from that they would want to do that turn?  
*) If you're coming from the Laurel Trail, then the intersection already assumes you don't exist, as there is no sane(/legal) way to get to the bike box.
*) If you're coming down Caroline, then... you just came from Bridgeport? Why are you turning around? Shouldn't you be taking a different route to your destination?  
*) Did you come from Albert? There are less terrifying and hilly ways to get to King/Erb than going via Caroline.

Also, bikes don’t legally have to wait to turn left any more than cars do. They should be advancing far enough they can see traffic on Erb, and make the left as soon as it is safe to do so, regardless of the state of the traffic signal.

I will say I have occasionally been annoyed by somebody not realizing they should be attempting to make their turn. I think the issue is that we have very few left-turn-on-red locations in this city. In fact, I can’t think of any others. A place like Calgary is much different — their downtown is full of them.

[KevinL]

Another elevated intersection shot from the Ion team...

[panamaniac]

That U-Haul has GOT to go! ;
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[danbrotherston]

WRT to the left turn at the bike box.  The region has indicated that right turns on red at bike boxes are prohibited, I would assume left turns on red are similarly prohibited.  Of course, given that this is not marked anywhere, nobody really knows, and everyone turns anyway.

As both a cyclist and a driver, I had no idea that this is a thing they claim.
Ultimately, if they don't have "no right(/left) on red" signs, then it's just talk, and no action.

I definitely agree, it's another pointless bylaw.  I doubt the police will even know to enforce it.  This was mentioned on one tour at some point, by someone from CoK.

This bike box however, we all know is stupid, it exists because when the intersection design was done...what, 10 years ago or more now, the city/region had a completely different idea of bike infra from what they do now.  Of course, now has its problems too, like, lack of safe and legal crossings.  Frankly, as a cyclist, I've given up following the law, I do what's right, and if the police want to ticket me, I'm happy to have a day in court.

WRT to bike boxes in general though, I like them, they're very useful where a bike lane ends, because they give me an obvious moment to merge into traffic instead of risking getting squeezed out at the intersection.  And obviously, they're important for left turns.  Frankly, I do left turns in the "bike box" way most of the time anyway (at least when I'm approaching a red), but it does occasionally freak out drivers making the left in the other direction who think I might continue all the way through the intersection. It's far less uncomfortable than merging through 2-4 lanes of speeding traffic.

[timc]

WRT to bike boxes in general though, I like them, they're very useful where a bike lane ends

It would be really nice if we could have them for those cases. I go through a few such intersections regularly. University at Weber, University at King, Columbia at King, and Columbia at Fischer-Hallman come to mind. I could see bike boxes being useful in those places.

[Lens]

Another elevated intersection shot from the Ion team...

That walk sign on the island definitely looks to be in the way for anyone crossing from One Vic to the Pharmacy to the Hub or vice versa. From that shot it looks like anyone with a mobility device will have to cross the tracks instead of using the island.

[jwilliamson]

The first layer of rebar is down in Uptown

[Smore]

the bus only lane and right of the island sign at King ("NB") and Vic have been fixed...now no bus only sign and a left of the island. No chevrons.

[Canard]

I have confirmation from Grandlinq that the final design of the signs here will be replaced replaced with the one in my avatar, the new Ontario standard for all LRT lines pictogram.

Edit - That's great news, jwilliamson!

[Canard]

Well this is great news!

New option may see LRT in service as scheduled in late 2017

I'm excited but I don't like that our opening ceremony will then get pushed close to winter. If it's like the weather is right now, I'm fine with that. But if it slipped at all, and went into November/December, then I'd rather just wait for a Spring 2018 opening.

No opening ceremony in the snow!!