King-Victoria Transit Hub

[ijmorlan]

I remember thinking about the absurdity of having no level-entry platform at the Via station when any contractor could, in a single weekend, build something the size of a backyard deck that would provide a ramp up to at least one door of the train. Obviously not as good as a full platform, but such a significant payoff for such a trivial expenditure.

It's sadly not the straightforward. Most of our passenger platforms are on tracks that serve freight trains. The freight trains are allowed to be wider, so a platform that provided level boarding of a Via train could have freight trains collide with it. I believe that's part of why Go uses the low platforms, because they're compatible with freight loading gauges.

This could be addressed with gauntlet track, and is irrelevant for the biggest stations, which have many tracks most of which never see freight traffic.

[KevinL]

It's sadly not the straightforward. Most of our passenger platforms are on tracks that serve freight trains. The freight trains are allowed to be wider, so a platform that provided level boarding of a Via train could have freight trains collide with it. I believe that's part of why Go uses the low platforms, because they're compatible with freight loading gauges.

This could be addressed with gauntlet track, and is irrelevant for the biggest stations, which have many tracks most of which never see freight traffic.

Bramalea, for example, has freight pass on a completely separate track. Its platforms have been built with the ability to be adjusted higher at a later date.

[danbrotherston]

This could be addressed with gauntlet track, and is irrelevant for the biggest stations, which have many tracks most of which never see freight traffic.

Bramalea, for example, has freight pass on a completely separate track. Its platforms have been built with the ability to be adjusted higher at a later date.

Ha, I realized our central station has that too...I wondered why there were 3 tracks between the platform even though every passenger train stops at our main station.

Yeah, honestly if this is a reason we cannot do platforms, it's a bad one.

[bravado]

I seem to recall that some time the recent past, a French railway operator ordered a fleet of passenger equipment that didn't fit the platforms.  In very short order, all of the platforms were upgraded to fit the new stock.

Perhaps France is not the best place to look for examples of prudent public expenditure.

French transport infrastructure and procurement is probably the best in the world.

[ac3r]

The French operate our LRT. All considered, they do an okay job.

[MidTowner]

Construction of Waterloo region's new transit hub is set to begin in March 2026.  For real this time.

[ZEBuilder]

The Region is moving forward with the demolition of portions of the Rumpel Felt building. It's going to Kitchener's Heritage Committee next week and is recommend for approval. It is subject to a pile of conditions, mainly related to the final approval of the various reports. The next step after approval is to obtain the demolition permit and then the Region would likely go through the procurement process for demolition services.

Here's the Staff Report: https://pub-kitchener.escribemeetings.co...ntId=26299

Additional reports for the property can be found here, there's demolition plans, structural reports etc: https://pub-kitchener.escribemeetings.co...ng=English

[panamaniac]

The original plant, once renovated/restored, should be quite nice.

[nms]

Has there been any suggestion of what the surviving 1913 structure might be repurposed for in the near term? Or at they hoping to put something up like the Glove Box project at the old Huck Glove building to defray the costs or the transit hub?

[westwardloo]

This whole building should have been demolished in 2015 when the original Transit Hub was proposed. It is not a special factory building and its built way too close to Victoria.  The building is also the reason no developer touched the site with a ten foot pole. My prediction is nothing is built on the rest of the site for 20+ years and it eventually gets torn down due to neglect.  The Region Staff working on this project have done an awful job with the development of this transit hub. I know this is crazy to say, but I think Metrolinx would have done a much better job at building this hub. Having the City of Kitchener, the Region and Metrolinx working on this has caused countless delays and waterdown designs.

[danbrotherston]

This whole building should have been demolished in 2015 when the original Transit Hub was proposed. It is not a special factory building and its built way too close to Victoria.  The building is also the reason no developer touched the site with a ten foot pole. My prediction is nothing is built on the rest of the site for 20+ years and it eventually gets torn down due to neglect.  The Region Staff working on this project have done an awful job with the development of this transit hub. I know this is crazy to say, but I think Metrolinx would have done a much better job at building this hub. Having the City of Kitchener, the Region and Metrolinx working on this has caused countless delays and waterdown designs.

I certainly don't know the details of what has gone on, but the results speak for themselves. It's a decade on, and nothing has been started, and the plans have been watered down to "the most expensive, most basic train station possible".

But this is also very on brand for Ontario (non-road) infrastructure projects.

[ZEBuilder]

This whole building should have been demolished in 2015 when the original Transit Hub was proposed. It is not a special factory building and its built way too close to Victoria.  The building is also the reason no developer touched the site with a ten foot pole. My prediction is nothing is built on the rest of the site for 20+ years and it eventually gets torn down due to neglect.  The Region Staff working on this project have done an awful job with the development of this transit hub. I know this is crazy to say, but I think Metrolinx would have done a much better job at building this hub. Having the City of Kitchener, the Region and Metrolinx working on this has caused countless delays and waterdown designs.

Victoria is going to be rebuilt in from King to Weber, provided the Province doesn't cancel it with their bike lane hatred. This will allow a cycle track and sidewalk in front of the existing Rumpel Felt meaning it won't be as narrow, you'll have significantly more width (roughly a car lane).

Why would you demolish something that is considered historical? There's definitely some buildings on the heritage registry that I personally don't agree with but this building is not that. It does have some worth to it. It is by no means difficult to incorporate an older building into a podium with full retention. You do need to design a building differently, for example you may need to use helical piles as you're bearing locations instead of a raft slab or standard footing. You'd likely need a significant transfer slab to deal with the different foundation layout but it's not as if this is a foreign concept in the engineering world, it's used very regularly.

I don't know if you've ever worked with Metrolinx but much like the MTO they can be difficult to work with especially on anything that isn't their primary goal (Ontario Line for example). This was ready to go for multiple years, the problem was Metrolinx dragged their feet on the station portion. The Region cannot do their work without the Metrolinx work so don't go blame the Region. There's various retaining walls which are part of the Metrolinx contract which touch the Regional portion so the Region can't do their work without Metrolinx.

[westwardloo]

This whole building should have been demolished in 2015 when the original Transit Hub was proposed. It is not a special factory building and its built way too close to Victoria.  The building is also the reason no developer touched the site with a ten foot pole. My prediction is nothing is built on the rest of the site for 20+ years and it eventually gets torn down due to neglect.  The Region Staff working on this project have done an awful job with the development of this transit hub. I know this is crazy to say, but I think Metrolinx would have done a much better job at building this hub. Having the City of Kitchener, the Region and Metrolinx working on this has caused countless delays and waterdown designs.

Victoria is going to be rebuilt in from King to Weber, provided the Province doesn't cancel it with their bike lane hatred. This will allow a cycle track and sidewalk in front of the existing Rumpel Felt meaning it won't be as narrow, you'll have significantly more width (roughly a car lane).

Why would you demolish something that is considered historical? There's definitely some buildings on the heritage registry that I personally don't agree with but this building is not that. It does have some worth to it. It is by no means difficult to incorporate an older building into a podium with full retention. You do need to design a building differently, for example you may need to use helical piles as you're bearing locations instead of a raft slab or standard footing. You'd likely need a significant transfer slab to deal with the different foundation layout but it's not as if this is a foreign concept in the engineering world, it's used very regularly.

I don't know if you've ever worked with Metrolinx but much like the MTO they can be difficult to work with especially on anything that isn't their primary goal (Ontario Line for example). This was ready to go for multiple years, the problem was Metrolinx dragged their feet on the station portion. The Region cannot do their work without the Metrolinx work so don't go blame the Region. There's various retaining walls which are part of the Metrolinx contract which touch the Regional portion so the Region can't do their work without Metrolinx.

If the Region and city had not designated this factory heritage, a private developer would have bid on the project back in 2015 and we would have had a train station, commercial, residential and office space on the site by now. Instead we are 1 decade later, no progress has been made and the final product is watered down into 2 phases with the likelihood that we get phase 2 down in the next decade seems highly unlikely. 

I understand that factory facades have been incorporated into designs of buildings, but right now there is little to no appetite for this type of additional development cost. We will see, but I feel pretty confident that we will not see any movement on this side of the site for 20 years. 

I have worked directly with Metrolinx and I am not saying they are the easiest government agency to deal with, but having 3 levels of government run this project clearly has not worked. The  requirements put on this project from the start from a Regional level has caused this project to be delayed and over budget.

[danbrotherston]

This whole building should have been demolished in 2015 when the original Transit Hub was proposed. It is not a special factory building and its built way too close to Victoria.  The building is also the reason no developer touched the site with a ten foot pole. My prediction is nothing is built on the rest of the site for 20+ years and it eventually gets torn down due to neglect.  The Region Staff working on this project have done an awful job with the development of this transit hub. I know this is crazy to say, but I think Metrolinx would have done a much better job at building this hub. Having the City of Kitchener, the Region and Metrolinx working on this has caused countless delays and waterdown designs.

Victoria is going to be rebuilt in from King to Weber, provided the Province doesn't cancel it with their bike lane hatred. This will allow a cycle track and sidewalk in front of the existing Rumpel Felt meaning it won't be as narrow, you'll have significantly more width (roughly a car lane).

Why would you demolish something that is considered historical? There's definitely some buildings on the heritage registry that I personally don't agree with but this building is not that. It does have some worth to it. It is by no means difficult to incorporate an older building into a podium with full retention. You do need to design a building differently, for example you may need to use helical piles as you're bearing locations instead of a raft slab or standard footing. You'd likely need a significant transfer slab to deal with the different foundation layout but it's not as if this is a foreign concept in the engineering world, it's used very regularly.

I don't know if you've ever worked with Metrolinx but much like the MTO they can be difficult to work with especially on anything that isn't their primary goal (Ontario Line for example). This was ready to go for multiple years, the problem was Metrolinx dragged their feet on the station portion. The Region cannot do their work without the Metrolinx work so don't go blame the Region. There's various retaining walls which are part of the Metrolinx contract which touch the Regional portion so the Region can't do their work without Metrolinx.

I always find historical stuff dubious at best.

Leaving aside absurd stuff like the Victoria Park residents forcing the city to install black "super-sharrows" (which make them really just regular sharrows, that they then park their oversized luxury SUVs on because of "heritage".

To me, we're missing the point of heritage. If we wanted to maintain the historical context of that area, we'd narrow all the roads to two lanes and heavily limit traffic, and restore and main the building in a form that the public can learn about the historically significant features/events.

If instead we only care about the aesthetics of heritage elements, then simply put requirements on the style of the new buildings that get constructed.

Instead we force buildings which have dubious historical value to be preserved (like, it was a manufacturer from a century ago...so what...do you also think the Google building, or the Toyota factory should be preserved, both have equal importance to the city's industry today as Rumpel Felt had a century ago) but not in a way that benefits the public.

It's like a lot of regulations in Ontario/Canada...good intentions, questionable execution, and heavily hijacked by regressive interests that seek to do nothing but stop progress of any kind.

[panamaniac]

You overlook how fundamental its manufacturing history is to Kitchener's identity.