ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[plam]

Tunnelling in this area is very possible. People always point to the water table to say it would be infeasible, but...we know how to make tunnels in any condition. It would have been costly, but if they tunnelled where it made sense (the urban core areas, mostly) it would have resulted in a much better truly rapid transit system rather than this Frankenstein amalgamation of street car + tram + light rail system that is objectively bad since it is trying to do numerous things at once whilst failing spectacularly at all of them.

Huh. 22 million LRT rides in 2024.

[bravado]

probably just 22 million hobbyists tbh

[KevinL]

The thing is, the speed and reliability issues seem fixable. A thorough technical evaluation of the slow zones and applying the necessary fixes could correct the former, and proper ice removal equipment and more thorough maintenance would deal with much of the latter. The real issue is that the contracted operator is running the system to the letter of their contract, and applying the above would mean costly amendments to that.

[Acitta]

Just imagine how good it could have been...! :'P

Seriously? We had enough complaints about it during construction as it was. Do you think that people would have accepted cut and cover tunnelling along King Street, as you have depicted in the picture? It was hard enough to get the project passed and built with the current design. Yes, compromises were made, but the system is well-used and enjoyed by transit users. Sure, once or twice a year, there are problems caused by weather, but that is outnumbered by the disruptions caused by idiot car drivers who crash their cars into the trains. There are still people who call it a "white elephant" and complain that it cost too much to build, but those people are idiots who wouldn't ride an LRT if there was a station next to their house and another one next to their place of employment. It Waterloo Region was a European city, it would have had several lines built 30 or 40 years ago, not to mention fast inter-city trains between all the major cities in Ontario. It is too late to complain about what is already built. How about looking to the future and advocating for phase 2 and beyond.

[tomh009]

Tunneled or elevated tracks also mean escalators, stairs and elevators to access platforms. Not only more expensive to build but also less quick and easy to access.

[ijmorlan]

Just imagine how good it could have been...! :'P

Just imagine how expensive it would have been.

Well, actually, it wouldn’t have been expensive at all because it wouldn’t have been built.

[nms]

A complete bonkers suggestion, but how difficult would it be to have a rubber tired vehicle to either push or pull the LRVs up the steeper part at Agnes? Then, the tractor could return back to the bottom for the nest trip. We do have a few tractors in the Region. The alternative could be a triple or quadruple train to power up the hill.

[ac3r]

Seriously? We had enough complaints about it during construction as it was. Do you think that people would have accepted cut and cover tunnelling along King Street, as you have depicted in the picture?

Oh no, we might annoy some more NIMBYs. Let's just opt for mediocrity instead so we don't have as many angry op-eds and Reddit meltdowns about things.

The point is this was a HUGE project that is going to outlive us. Instead of opting for the cheap, half-assed option we should have went all in on it. Proper investment and city building that would offer far reaching benefits for generations. Instead, we got this AliExpress light rail system that will very quickly hit its capacity. And Phase 2? Well, it's going to be the same issue - but worse. In 40 years I guarantee they'll look back at the ION the same way we look back at Line 3 Scarborough and say "what a waste of money, why didn't we just do it right the first time?". People still call it a white elephant because it is so incredibly mediocre.

Obviously there is no changing it now, but it's still a frustrating reality that the citizens have to live with. It makes it rather hard to have any faith in the direction of this region when there is such an apathetic, lazy attitude that persists in both the citizens and those who are making the decisions. I mean there's a reason why people call it a white elephant and it's not because they're carbrained anti-transit suburbanites that hate trains and buses...it's because we ended up with a cheap novelty instead of a real rapid transit system and is a huge reason why any Phase 2 - at least to Cambridge - is going to be a miracle if it ever happens before we're all dead.

[Acitta]

Seriously? We had enough complaints about it during construction as it was. Do you think that people would have accepted cut and cover tunnelling along King Street, as you have depicted in the picture?

Oh no, we might annoy some more NIMBYs. Let's just opt for mediocrity instead so we don't have as many angry op-eds and Reddit meltdowns about things.

The point is this was a HUGE project that is going to outlive us. Instead of opting for the cheap, half-assed option we should have went all in on it. Proper investment and city building that would offer far reaching benefits for generations. Instead, we got this AliExpress light rail system that will very quickly hit its capacity. And Phase 2? Well, it's going to be the same issue - but worse. In 40 years I guarantee they'll look back at the ION the same way we look back at Line 3 Scarborough and say "what a waste of money, why didn't we just do it right the first time?". People still call it a white elephant because it is so incredibly mediocre.

Obviously there is no changing it now, but it's still a frustrating reality that the citizens have to live with. It makes it rather hard to have any faith in the direction of this region when there is such an apathetic, lazy attitude that persists in both the citizens and those who are making the decisions. I mean there's a reason why people call it a white elephant and it's not because they're carbrained anti-transit suburbanites that hate trains and buses...it's because we ended up with a cheap novelty instead of a real rapid transit system and is a huge reason why any Phase 2 - at least to Cambridge - is going to be a miracle if it ever happens before we're all dead.

We do not live in a paternalistic, authoritarian society where the people in charge can just build whatever they deem good for the people. It would be great if we could build transit systems with the speed and quality of what they have done in China, but I think that if we had that kind of government, then most of the commenters on this list would end up in a re-education camp for not showing sufficient deference to the authorities.

[neonjoe]

Perhaps if we held out longer for full funding we could have had a better solution. But I believe we would have ended up in the same situation as Hamilton or London. The more time you give the project to simmer the more likely it will be canceled and restarted or completely watered down. We got something because we at least moved forward within the constraints at the time.

[bravado]

I think we can all agree that Ion is not the kind of project that we would build if we had respect for actual transit principles, a normal cost structure, and a willing electorate. KW had none of those during Phase 1 so I'm happy that we got something at all. We should be using its success to argue for and build better versions iteratively every year, but local and provincial leadership has no vision and definitely doesn't ride transit. All the users and new residential units enabled by Ion should be a potent electoral force, but with turnout limited to basically nobody in municipal politics, they don't get heard.

[Acitta]

Perhaps if we held out longer for full funding we could have had a better solution. But I believe we would have ended up in the same situation as Hamilton or London. The more time you give the project to simmer the more likely it will be canceled and restarted or completely watered down. We got something because we at least moved forward within the constraints at the time.

Yes, just look at the many transit plans proposed and then cancelled in Toronto when there was a change in the city or provincial governments. Toronto has always been more in need of more subway lines than what Waterloo Region needs.

[ac3r]

We do not live in a paternalistic, authoritarian society where the people in charge can just build whatever they deem good for the people. It would be great if we could build transit systems with the speed and quality of what they have done in China, but I think that if we had that kind of government, then most of the commenters on this list would end up in a re-education camp for not showing sufficient deference to the authorities.

Huh? I mean I know people within the online urban/transit circles make jokes about how great Chinese transit is for fun, but what does that have to do with anything here? We operate within the framework we have in Canada. If we look at that as a handicap as your post somewhat implies (and I would argue yes, we definitely have hurdles that make doing things harder) then that should be all the more reason to make sure we make the best of all possible worlds in the first place, rather than settle for mediocrity now and leave the next generation to pick up the pieces.

[ac3r]

Perhaps if we held out longer for full funding we could have had a better solution. But I believe we would have ended up in the same situation as Hamilton or London. The more time you give the project to simmer the more likely it will be canceled and restarted or completely watered down. We got something because we at least moved forward within the constraints at the time.

A fair point, but I think Waterloo Region would have pulled it off regardless. When you compare this region to Hamilton or London, there is much more relevance and importance to be found here. Yeah both those cities have large universities and a similar population, but this region had already had its engines ignited. There was a huge boom in technology and research already existing, but also snowballing and growing bigger and bigger even when the LRT was still being planned and but a dream. It was easier for us to get the province/feds to kick in what they could just because of the existing and future potential that the changes in the local economy were resulting in. It would have taken more arm wrestling, but I don't see why they wouldn't have provided more if we proposed the design would have subterranean or elevated sections. I mean they had their own teams of transit professionals looking over the project, it's not like they don't understand the value a more sophisticated design would ultimately provide.

A better designed rapid transit system would have cost us more, yes, but it would have resulted in better returns in the long run. The two things are tied together. If Toronto built a low capacity, slow light metro (like Line 3) in place of Line 1 and 2 of the TTC subway then Toronto would have not evolved in the great way it did. Because the ION can only be 2 LRVs long and its speed is limited by its physical design features, it can only ever carry X amount of people and have whatever its fastest possible headway is (5 minutes, I think? Or was 7.5 the best they can do?) before there is nothing more you can do to improve it. Yes it moves tens of thousands a day and that can be roughly doubled from whatever it is now, you are still going to hit the capacity sooner than later.

That's when the next generation will wonder why the hell us millennials and gen Zers were thinking when they approved the ION the way it was.

[ac3r]

I think we can all agree that Ion is not the kind of project that we would build if we had respect for actual transit principles, a normal cost structure, and a willing electorate. KW had none of those during Phase 1 so I'm happy that we got something at all.

While others may disagree, I think this post helps illustrate one idea I've talked about at some point in the past: they could have just not designed it with every station they did. Like, does it really need to go past UW or Mill? They could have just made a shorter line, designed it much more complex so as to be more useful and then continued to work on expansion plans. With a few years of running a smaller but better system, it would prove itself to locals and provincial/federal decision makers and so asking for more money to expand it over the years might have been an easier option.

On that note I can't even imagine what sort of long drawn out process it's going to be to ask the province and feds for billions of dollars to do the Cambridge line now. They paid for the majority of the costs of over 565 million I believe for the first line which was a good deal. But good luck asking them for a lump sum of billions upon billions of dollars for this almost fantasy like Cambridge extension now that our whole global economy collapsed due to an authoritarian and failed response to a pandemic, numerous horrible wars and terrorism and now 4 years of Donald Trump setting fire to the planet again. Phase 2 is either going to cost 100 billion dollars or 10 cents by the time they ever get to the point of actually proposing it. I truly doubt we'll see it built for another 20 years if we're lucky.