Cycling in Waterloo Region

[the_conestoga_guy]

The continuous sidewalks are a great addition. I hope it's something that even the opposition to bike lanes can appreciate and approve of. But holy, why do we have to have so much pavement? I'm not sure if the darkest part is supposed to be for a bus shelter (ok if it is), but at least the lighter grey parts could have plants.

Regarding the bumpiness, that wasn't an issue at all that I can recall on Highland Rd E. I wonder why it was done differently here. I guess in the case of Highland, the sidewalks were directly adjacent to the bike lanes and could handle more of the gradient up to the existing lawn.

I 100% agree about the darker parts of the sidewalk being in need of some greenery. However, I'm quite sure that this is the City's way of absolving themselves of the responsibility of maintaining it. Which is too bad, because the residents will have to live with it forever. There's also nothing really preventing drivers from just rolling over it, which makes everything feel less predictable and more dangerous for pedestrians 

Edit to add that perfect is the enemy of good, and overall I'm very pleased with the upgrades! The whole road was heavily degraded, and this is a drastic improvement!

[dscurtis]

The continuous sidewalks are a great addition. I hope it's something that even the opposition to bike lanes can appreciate and approve of. But holy, why do we have to have so much pavement? I'm not sure if the darkest part is supposed to be for a bus shelter (ok if it is), but at least the lighter grey parts could have plants.

Regarding the bumpiness, that wasn't an issue at all that I can recall on Highland Rd E. I wonder why it was done differently here. I guess in the case of Highland, the sidewalks were directly adjacent to the bike lanes and could handle more of the gradient up to the existing lawn.

Perhaps the grey concrete is to improve sightlines? I could imagine plants making it harder to see young kids at the crossings. Agreed that grass/greenery would like nice, but it might be a maintenance concern?

Interestingly, the boulevard on Highland is quite narrow in places (Streetview example), yet the grading looks way smoother. Perhaps the driveway ramps on Highland are steeper, but it doesn't look like it to me, so I'm confused... You're right that the larger the boulevard, the easier it is to keep the cycle track a consistent grade since the driveway ramps can be made shallower. If the boulevard is too small, there's not enough distance to achieve a reasonable gradient on driveway ramps (I think the spec is max. 10%) without lowering the cycle tracks at the ramps.

[danbrotherston]

I'm surprised they used grass that narrow on Highland. I know the region generally refuses to any grass verge less than 1 meter wide at a minimum because they feel it simply doesn't grow. Of course this is the city so they're usually saner, and this is also housing fronted, so they don't do maintenance anyway.

The undulations are unfortunate, it could just be a different contractor doing a shittier job. I know that with some of the speed humps they were done so poorly that only the markings on the ground indicate where they are, there's very nearly zero vertical displacement to the actual road surface, certainly nothing anyone would notice driving over it.

I suspect some contractors are just very uncomfortable with/incompetent with building non-car infra.

FWIW, the driveways and road surface on East are still very wide. I mean, it's generally a huge improvement (and no doubt something DoFo will review :eyeroll but I wonder if the road is actually meeting the new complete streets standards. I hope it isn't, because compared with the cars, it is still so freaking wide. This encourages speeding and dangerous behaviour. For reference, the main road through the village where we are (mind you, not the main car road, just the main street) that carries a fair number of cars, tons of bikes, and even frequent large trucks and buses, is only 5.5m wide, so 2.75m per lane (although there are no lane markings). Quiet residential side streets (that are still two way) will be ~4m wide. I think this makes a huge difference to how roads feel, and especially how the traffic flows (to say nothing of the cost).

[dscurtis]

I'm surprised they used grass that narrow on Highland. I know the region generally refuses to any grass verge less than 1 meter wide at a minimum because they feel it simply doesn't grow. Of course this is the city so they're usually saner, and this is also housing fronted, so they don't do maintenance anyway.

The undulations are unfortunate, it could just be a different contractor doing a shittier job. I know that with some of the speed humps they were done so poorly that only the markings on the ground indicate where they are, there's very nearly zero vertical displacement to the actual road surface, certainly nothing anyone would notice driving over it.

I suspect some contractors are just very uncomfortable with/incompetent with building non-car infra.

FWIW, the driveways and road surface on East are still very wide. I mean, it's generally a huge improvement (and no doubt something DoFo will review :eyeroll but I wonder if the road is actually meeting the new complete streets standards. I hope it isn't, because compared with the cars, it is still so freaking wide. This encourages speeding and dangerous behaviour. For reference, the main road through the village where we are (mind you, not the main car road, just the main street) that carries a fair number of cars, tons of bikes, and even frequent large trucks and buses, is only 5.5m wide, so 2.75m per lane (although there are no lane markings). Quiet residential side streets (that are still two way) will be ~4m wide. I think this makes a huge difference to how roads feel, and especially how the traffic flows (to say nothing of the cost).

Yes, my experience with the Region has been min. 1.0m boulevard for grass, if less they prefer coloured concrete.

Reading through the City's Complete Streets document, East Ave is classified as a Major Community Collector Street (page 39). The typical cross sections on pages 27-28 show 3.3m+3.3m road lanes and a 2.4m parking lane = 9.0m total road width. MTE's drawings show East Ave as 8.1m EP to EP, so a bit narrower than the recommendation. Agreed that narrower would be nicer.

[plam]

So the province's bonkers bike lane ban covers things that were traffic lanes. I guess that multi-use sidewalks definitely aren't, and this isn't either?

[danbrotherston]

So the province's bonkers bike lane ban covers things that were traffic lanes. I guess that multi-use sidewalks definitely aren't, and this isn't either?

Only traffic lanes? Not parking? AFAIK it replaced Peking on one side.

[danbrotherston]

New cycling plan: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...-1.7374157

Lots seems good, but also some I think is not new (I remember talking about Caroline with regional staff like 5 years ago).

Whether it’s moot or not with DoFos new law. Who knows. Apparently he’s moving to limit debate of it.

[danbrotherston]

Ahh. And the usual missinformation from our regions loudest pundit:

https://www.therecord.com/opinion/column...fad61.html

[westwardloo]

Ahh. And the usual missinformation from our regions loudest pundit:

https://www.therecord.com/opinion/column...fad61.html

It is too bad that Mike is such an anti-bike lane person as he has arguably the biggest influence over public opinion in our cities. I think a big issue with bike lanes in our area is the network is so speratitc with each city/ region having their own plan on what they want the infrastructure to look like. If we could just get everyone on the same page and implement a standard for separated bike lane design. A lot of the streets we have/ are putting bike lanes on have enough room to maintain car lanes while adding bike infrastructure. We don't need 3.5m car lanes it only encourages drivers to drive faster.

[danbrotherston]

Ahh. And the usual missinformation from our regions loudest pundit:

https://www.therecord.com/opinion/column...fad61.html

It is too bad that Mike is such an anti-bike lane person as he has arguably the biggest influence over public opinion in our cities. I think a big issue with bike lanes in our area is the network is so speratitc with each city/ region having their own plan on what they want the infrastructure to look like. If we could just get everyone on the same page and implement a standard for separated bike lane design. A lot of the streets we have/ are putting bike lanes on have enough room to maintain car lanes while adding bike infrastructure. We don't need 3.5m car lanes it only encourages drivers to drive faster.

Yeah, honestly it's disappointing that he continues to be handed such a large platform to speak, and in this case, lie, to the public.

He knows as well as any of us that the University Ave. lanes are built with temporary materials and the project is simply a reconstruction in permanent materials, and yet he chose to lie to people claiming they're being "upgraded". I couldn't get away with acting like that in my job.

[creative]

I like how those that drive cars are supposed experts on building bike lanes while those that primarily cycle are supposed experts on how to build car lanes. Dunning Kruger effect

[dtkvictim]

I like how those that drive cars are supposed experts on building bike lanes while those that primarily cycle are supposed experts on how to build car lanes. Dunning Kruger effect

There certainly is some of that from both "sides", but it's really not equivalent. Most people who drive almost exclusively drive, but most people who bike also drive (and walk, and take transit).

[bravado]

I like how those that drive cars are supposed experts on building bike lanes while those that primarily cycle are supposed experts on how to build car lanes. Dunning Kruger effect

It turns out that the whole spectrum of the public has opinions on how we use public space, obviously - but only 1 group (drivers) has had their way by default for the last century.

[ac3r]

There's a good video that was just put out about Doug Ford's so called war on bike lanes which all mass media and every biking YouTuber has jumped on, but was barely about bike lanes and more a way to try and push more road/highway legislation through: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-1vT0TmQjs

[danbrotherston]

I like how those that drive cars are supposed experts on building bike lanes while those that primarily cycle are supposed experts on how to build car lanes. Dunning Kruger effect

There certainly is some of that from both "sides", but it's really not equivalent. Most people who drive almost exclusively drive, but most people who bike also drive (and walk, and take transit).

Honestly, it’s amazing how many drivers believe that it is a physical law of the universe that you can only use a single mode of transportation. You either drive everywhere, or you get on a bus or bike and your car suddenly doesn’t exist, nor have you ever driven.

The reality is that people who use multiple modes do tend to understand things a bit better, because they have a wider experience. But even so, they might not have all the answers.

But us advocates know perfectly well the situation, it isn’t about being an expert, it’s about having different priorities/values than the “experts”. I think lanes should be narrower because my goals are safety and community, where as engineers plan for wider roads because their goals are maximizing speeds, and maximizing exclusivity. We don’t think that’s a good priority on busy urban streets let along neighbourhood streets.

I can’t do a hydrological study of the roadway, that’s an expert field. But I can have an opinion of and understand the trade offs and priorities of design. This is a failure of engineers. They don’t believe they are making value discussions when they build 4 meter wide lanes. But they are. It isn’t about expertise, it’s about values.