Driving vs transit

[ac3r]

And yet, many people spend 3h+ per day commuting to Toronto. That's a month/year if you prefer to count that way.

Yeah, but that's usually out of necessity, not a want. A 3 hour commute is something people do because there is some sort of benefit that outweighs the time wasted and the negative health impacts spent commuting. It's not something most people are going to choose to do if they do not have to or continue to do any longer than needed. The same fact holds true about a 25 minute commute each day - or a 25 minute bus or train ride to a concert. Choosing to drive also comes with its own forms of poorly spent time, but for most people in most situations...driving is always going to be the superior option. If it weren't, there'd be more demand for alternatives. It's not as if people are brainwashed into choosing to drive places over cycling to them, it usually just that driving is more comfortable and convenient. Better buses will make people use them, but driving is still likely going to be the "better" choice.

There's nuance, but I think this explains the general attitude as to why as a society most of us choose to drive places. This is intentionally leaving out arguments that people would bus more if it was more frequent or if cycling was safer, because of course they would if alternatives were simpler. Or conspiracy theories about how Big Auto and Big Asphalt have conditioned us into having to drive. It's just a great way to get around.

And indeed a lot of us do willingly choose the longer option for plenty of reasons, be it that a car is too expensive, they enjoy travelling that way or they're idealistic about it. I recall overhearing a lady on the LRT chatting with a random guy next to her, explaining how she loves taking the GO train to Toronto because it's more laid back. But at her age, she could afford the time spent doing that.

[Acitta]

I don't understand how a 25-minute bus ride is a problem.

It's a lot of wasted time, that's why it's a problem. Let's say a person has a 55 minute bus commute each day. Let's say they commute a total of 260 weekdays a year just for work. Let's also say they never choose or are able to drive, so they do this for 55 years of their life. That comes out to...well...a heck of a lot of days in your life wasted not only ON the bus, but waiting for the bus and going to and from the bus.

Now sure, for a one off thing a couple times a year - a concert at CITS or a sports match - that may not seem like a big deal. But for most people, they sure as heck don't want to waste months to years of their time on earth riding around on some bus to get where they need to go. Unless someone is a fan of buses, I don't see why anyone would choose this over owning a personal vehicle (even if it's just a bicycle). One could make the argument that it's still preferable for many reasons - environmental, safety - but at the end of the day unless someone has nothing better to do, they aren't going to want to use public transit if they don't have to...at least in a city like ours. If we had the sort of transit system in Berlin or Kyoto then sure, it makes more sense but even there people want to drive.

Of course there is a ton of nuance to all of this and the choices we make, either at a personal level or because the city in this region really sucks all things considered. Regardless, convenience is going to triumph. Maximizing our time and making it faster to get from A to B has been something that we as a species have always strove to achieve. Automobiles may come with a lot of problems, but they're here to stay and save having some sort of pro-car authoritarian government rule us and ban personal automobiles, we're going to continue to use them. We CAN absolutely make improvements, though, but it has to be done right.

Anyway this is all a bit off topic.

I managed to get to the age of 71 without ever owning a car. I get around by bicycle, public transit and walking. The only limitation is the poor or nonexistent transit options to go anyplace that isn't the GTA. I have taken some long trips by bicycle, but that is not a good option for commuters.
Edit: I read a lot of books when I commuted by transit in Toronto, so I don't consider it wasted time.

[danbrotherston]

You folks are missing the point when you try to justify a longer transit trip than a driving trip.

I completely feel you, I'm happy to take a slightly longer transit trip so that I can read or do something (or even just enjoy) my transit trip, than driving. But most people will not, they'll take the shortest, most convenient option, regardless of any other factors. If one could shorten their commute by 1 minute a day by using slave labour, I feel the vast majority would do it provided the slaves remain abstract and far away in other countries.

This is just human nature.

The problem is that when we prioritize and enable driving over all other options, EVERYONE'S commutes get slower. We all suffer. It's tragedy of the commons. Yes, transit is slower, yes, transit waits behind traffic, but people in cars, also wait in traffic. But even beyond that, in the longer term, we build more spread out cities where things are farther apart, and then it takes longer to get places no matter how you go.

The real solution is to prioritize other modes that are less wasteful and space inefficient than driving, it's how everyone gets around faster. It's why the Netherlands does so well. Yes, you can drive in my city. Basically everywhere except the medieval centre is accessible by cars. But basically everywhere you drive, you must take a much more circuitous route, driving out to an arterial and then working around to the other side, then driving back into wherever you are going. It means that any driving trip is going to be 2-3x longer than biking in distance, then biking is competitive. Transit isn't as advantaged as biking, but you can still take transit through areas that cars are disallowed.

This means that biking and to a lesser extent, transit, is more convenient than driving, which means fewer people drive, which means our traffic is better and destinations are closer. It's why I can can reach any part of my city of 250k (where I live at the far edge--not in the middle) in 20 minutes or so by bicycle (and also by car), no city of similar size and scope in North America is that accessible for everyone, regardless of whether you drive or what.

Transit will never win by being slower...but we have brought ourselves into a toxic place where drivers are terrified of losing their "freedom" even though that "freedom" is imprisoning all of us, including them.