Farmland conversion and landfill sites

[nms]

Once it's completely full, they have considered building a waste to energy incineration facility which I think would be a great idea. One caveat is that they think that would require accepting waste from other municipalities to make it worth the cost. That will likely become a messy political and policy obstacle, because the idea of importing waste from elsewhere is always a hard sell to the public. Environmentalists and commies won't like that idea, but then again they don't really have any ideas in the first place. I think it would be a good investment to use, while also working on programs for waste reduction and recycling improvements. It would surely be better than having to open up what would become the 9th landfill in the region.

I wondered whether there would be any sense in building some sort of waste eater that could have the first goal to consume the Region's annual waste output, but then to ultimately eliminate the existing landfill.  The Erb St site could also be modified to allow rail traffic in for the importation of waste.  The waste eater could be any number of of technologies. Heck, maybe even partner with the universities to come up with a new technology  (eg waste-to-energy, or an incinerator... or something that sends it to the multiverse).

[tomh009]

Once it's completely full, they have considered building a waste to energy incineration facility which I think would be a great idea. One caveat is that they think that would require accepting waste from other municipalities to make it worth the cost. That will likely become a messy political and policy obstacle, because the idea of importing waste from elsewhere is always a hard sell to the public. Environmentalists and commies won't like that idea, but then again they don't really have any ideas in the first place. I think it would be a good investment to use, while also working on programs for waste reduction and recycling improvements. It would surely be better than having to open up what would become the 9th landfill in the region.

I wondered whether there would be any sense in building some sort of waste eater that could have the first goal to consume the Region's annual waste output, but then to ultimately eliminate the existing landfill.  The Erb St site could also be modified to allow rail traffic in for the importation of waste.  The waste eater could be any number of of technologies. Heck, maybe even partner with the universities to come up with a new technology  (eg waste-to-energy, or an incinerator... or something that sends it to the multiverse).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_management_in_Japan

One incinerator can handle the waste for about 600,000 people ... conveniently almost the same as our regional population!

[clasher]

There's an incinerator in Durham, near Darlington nuke and Bowmanville cement plant. Need steady stream of waste to keep it running full bore. There's still some emissions, and the ashes that need to be dealt with. I think I heard Ottawa is looking at it as one option.

[tomh009]

There's an incinerator in Durham, near Darlington nuke and Bowmanville cement plant. Need steady stream of waste to keep it running full bore. There's still some emissions, and the ashes that need to be dealt with. I think I heard Ottawa is looking at it as one option.

The emissions are quite small as long as the temperatures are 850C+. Ashes, yes, but they take far less space--and they can even be used for things like creating artificial islands.

[danbrotherston]

I think this is the right thread....

Anyway, Jane Mitchel has written a fairly scathing piece on the land assembly: https://janemitchell.blog/2024/04/10/the...e-is-dead/

The TL;DR is that we're giving up the principles we've stuck to in the region for two decades for a few jobs and some greenwashing. And she's damn right.

I mean, I have fundamental problems with what is happening here, but I wouldn't like it even if expropriation wasn't being used here. I'm rather surprised how willing some people are here to roll over for a large corporation opening a factory. Like, if this was a developer promising sprawling housing, there wouldn't be a single person here in favour, but a sprawling, car dependent factory....and half of you have rolled over and shown your bellies. Capitalism is fucking weird.

[panamaniac]

I'm surprised that there would be much opposition to potentially thousands of well-paid manufacturing jobs. Not the Kitchener I grew up in.

[danbrotherston]

I'm surprised that there would be much opposition to potentially thousands of well-paid manufacturing jobs.  Not the Kitchener I grew up in.

Statements like these are...I'll be polite and say "misleading".

Would you not also be surprised that there would be opposition to housing in the middle of a housing crisis?

The point is neither of these things exist in a vacuum.

It isn't "jobs" that are being opposed here, it's the immense environmental and cultural destruction that you are willing to suffer in order to bring those "jobs"...

And a statement like that is...again, I'll politely call it "misleading" because it hides that significant harm, and implies foolishness on the part of those who disagree. Instead of recognizing the real trade off at play here.

[bravado]

I have to disagree - there is harm in breaking the local government trust in protecting countryside, but the very large majority of voters will always pick a huge investment project that provides jobs over the environment. If this is the battery plant that rumours say, it would be a gigantic boon to the region.

The real question is why has it been so secret and why couldn’t existing planned industrial land be used? Arguing against pretty good jobs is a political loser every time.

If it isn’t a battery plant and it turns out to be some spa run by Ford’s friends, I take it all back.

[tomh009]

It isn't "jobs" that are being opposed here, it's the immense environmental and cultural destruction that you are willing to suffer in order to bring those "jobs"...

Immense cultural destruction? Seriously?

[danbrotherston]

I have to disagree - there is harm in breaking the local government trust in protecting countryside, but the very large majority of voters will always pick a huge investment project that provides jobs over the environment. If this is the battery plant that rumours say, it would be a gigantic boon to the region.

The real question is why has it been so secret and why couldn’t existing planned industrial land be used? Arguing against pretty good jobs is a political loser every time.

If it isn’t a battery plant and it turns out to be some spa run by Ford’s friends, I take it all back.

I mean, I don't disagree, people make bad decisions all the time.

But I don't see where you actually disagree with anything I've said. (Perhaps you think the plant is worth it...and in that we do disagree, but not in the broader conversation).

If this was developing housing in this context, here, and the general public would be much more against it.

But because it's a large corporation, for some reason we're willing to sacrifice anything. I'm not saying that we don't, I'm lamenting it, and I'm especially lamenting the refusal to actually acknowledge the harms that we are willing to incur for almighty "jobs".

As for whether it's a battery plant, or spa, I don't think matters...neither will change the environmental and cultural damage, both will bring jobs, and both reek of corruption, yes, a battery plan would be more greenwashed than a spa...but so what, it's also likely to be more environmentally destructive.

[danbrotherston]

It isn't "jobs" that are being opposed here, it's the immense environmental and cultural destruction that you are willing to suffer in order to bring those "jobs"...

Immense cultural destruction? Seriously?

Immense environmental destruction...yes...absolutely serious.

As for cultural destruction, *I* a person who has never set foot on a farm, has heard of and enjoyed the products from at least one of the farms. So there is absolutely a loss of local businesses that have a presence in the community.

To me, that's cultural destruction, but you might think of a different term, but please don't tell me that my favourite local cheese is not important.

But again, if this was an analogous situation, like, all the small business restaurants and shops that must close on a block to make way for a new highrise development downtown, I would (and have) acknowledged that as a loss when it happens (but i that case, it is often one I think is worth it, because other costs are much lower).

[panamaniac]

It isn't "jobs" that are being opposed here, it's the immense environmental and cultural destruction that you are willing to suffer in order to bring those "jobs"...

Immense cultural destruction? Seriously?

One would posit that manufacturing jobs are at the heart of the local culture.  Busy Berlin has not been entirely forgotten.

[tomh009]

Immense cultural destruction? Seriously?

Immense environmental destruction...yes...absolutely serious.

As for cultural destruction, *I* a person who has never set foot on a farm, has heard of and enjoyed the products from at least one of the farms. So there is absolutely a loss of local businesses that have a presence in the community.

To me, that's cultural destruction, but you might think of a different term, but please don't tell me that my favourite local cheese is not important.

But again, if this was an analogous situation, like, all the small business restaurants and shops that must close on a block to make way for a new highrise development downtown, I would (and have) acknowledged that as a loss when it happens (but i that case, it is often one I think is worth it, because other costs are much lower).

So, the loss of a local business (yes, farming is a business, even if it's a subsidized and trade-protected one) would generally count as cultural destruction?

[ac3r]

Lol...

[panamaniac]

Seems there may be less to this story than has been speculated. The Doug says the land is NOT being assembled for a specific business and that the land assembly that the Province has asked municipalities to undertake should involve willing sellers. Somebody got over enthusiastic?