Road design, safety and Vision Zero

[tomh009]

Not going to 30 km/h -- that was the city of Waterloo, though, not Kitchener, right?

[danbrotherston]

Not going to 30 km/h -- that was the city of Waterloo, though, not Kitchener, right?

School zones will be 30km/h...

And yeah, Waterloo was to be 30km/h...

But in the name of...*checks notes*...consistency...they chose to *checks notes a second time*...only do 30km/h in one neighbourhood...

[Bob_McBob]

Another pedestrian was struck at the Erb and Ira Needles roundabout on Thursday night. Transported out of region for emergency medical treatment so I assume it was more than minor injuries. This happened at dusk, just like the last one in December. The region's transportation commissioner is adamant that flashing pedestrian signals at this intersection would "distract" drivers due to all the surrounding commercial signage. Apparently it's more important for Chuck's Roadhouse to be able to put on a psychedelic flashing light show than improve pedestrian safety.

https://www.wrps.on.ca/en/news/wrps-cont...ision.aspx

[bravado]

Another pedestrian was struck at the Erb and Ira Needles roundabout on Thursday night. Transported out of region for emergency medical treatment so I assume it was more than minor injuries. This happened at dusk, just like the last one in December. The region's transportation commissioner is adamant that flashing pedestrian signals at this intersection would "distract" drivers due to all the surrounding commercial signage. Apparently it's more important for Chuck's Roadhouse to be able to put on a psychedelic flashing light show than improve pedestrian safety.

https://www.wrps.on.ca/en/news/wrps-cont...ision.aspx

They would only distract drivers if the flashing was more intensive than the phones that they’re looking at instead

[danbrotherston]

Another pedestrian was struck at the Erb and Ira Needles roundabout on Thursday night. Transported out of region for emergency medical treatment so I assume it was more than minor injuries. This happened at dusk, just like the last one in December. The region's transportation commissioner is adamant that flashing pedestrian signals at this intersection would "distract" drivers due to all the surrounding commercial signage. Apparently it's more important for Chuck's Roadhouse to be able to put on a psychedelic flashing light show than improve pedestrian safety.

https://www.wrps.on.ca/en/news/wrps-cont...ision.aspx

The "distract drivers" line is so absurd.

Driver distraction is a real issue.

"Distracting" their focus "ON THE CROSSING" is the opposite of distracting.

*sigh*...some things never change in the region.

[ijmorlan]

Another pedestrian was struck at the Erb and Ira Needles roundabout on Thursday night. Transported out of region for emergency medical treatment so I assume it was more than minor injuries. This happened at dusk, just like the last one in December. The region's transportation commissioner is adamant that flashing pedestrian signals at this intersection would "distract" drivers due to all the surrounding commercial signage. Apparently it's more important for Chuck's Roadhouse to be able to put on a psychedelic flashing light show than improve pedestrian safety.

https://www.wrps.on.ca/en/news/wrps-cont...ision.aspx

That is painfully stupid. Where do they find these people? Doesn’t this mean the commercial signage should be removed so that it doesn’t distract drivers from seeing things that are actually important to the safety of themselves and the people around them?

[dtkvictim]

I didn't think my opinion on drivers could get worse, after mostly getting around as a pedestrian or cyclist for a decade. But since I've started driving, my opinion has plummeted even further... In only about 400km of driving in the city I've seen 3 people run red lights. One was at the new pedestrian crossing SF22 just mentioned, as a pedestrian was crossing, and two directly in front of crossing traffic, nearly collisions if the crossing traffic hadn't reacted fast enough. I've also had 4 people cut us off by using a left turn lane to pass traffic and go straight (Is this a South Asian driving culture thing? It was the case all 3 times I looked). I also had a car come at me head-on around a bend, because they were driving the wrong way on a one way road. I've twice had oncoming vehicles turn left in front of me while I'm going straight through an intersection, forcing me to a complete stop. Those are the more dangerous ones, but I've seen some other truly bizarre things already too... It's like the twilight zone out there.

I would have a dashcam montage already, if I could install a dashcam in my car without it guaranteeing another smashed window to steal it.

Meanwhile not a single cyclist or pedestrian has caused me trouble, and the only cyclists my spouse has seen behaving dangerously were all seemingly addicts who do as they please, as usual. I don't know how so many motorists can hold the view that cyclists and pedestrians behave more dangerously than drivers...

[danbrotherston]

I didn't think my opinion on drivers could get worse, after mostly getting around as a pedestrian or cyclist for a decade. But since I've started driving, my opinion has plummeted even further... In only about 400km of driving in the city I've seen 3 people run red lights. One was at the new pedestrian crossing SF22 just mentioned, as a pedestrian was crossing, and two directly in front of crossing traffic, nearly collisions if the crossing traffic hadn't reacted fast enough. I've also had 4 people cut us off by using a left turn lane to pass traffic and go straight (Is this a South Asian driving culture thing? It was the case all 3 times I looked). I also had a car come at me head-on around a bend, because they were driving the wrong way on a one way road. I've twice had oncoming vehicles turn left in front of me while I'm going straight through an intersection, forcing me to a complete stop. Those are the more dangerous ones, but I've seen some other truly bizarre things already too... It's like the twilight zone out there.

I would have a dashcam montage already, if I could install a dashcam in my car without it guaranteeing another smashed window to steal it.

Meanwhile not a single cyclist or pedestrian has caused me trouble, and the only cyclists my spouse has seen behaving dangerously were all seemingly addicts who do as they please, as usual. I don't know how so many motorists can hold the view that cyclists and pedestrians behave more dangerously than drivers...

This might be more of a road safety thread discussion, but I think there's a pretty straightforward cognitive answer here.

Drivers are humans and humans use some cognitive shortcuts to evaluate risk and danger, which frankly are really terrible at estimating risk. Basically, we perceive novel and unusual things as dangerous, and things we're accustomed to as safe, regardless of the actual risk of the thing. So, yeah, most drivers probably don't like the "rude" and "inconsiderate" drivers who routinely threaten their lives, but they don't perceive them as dangerous. Where as, cyclists are rare and often commit different driving infractions (or perfectly legal but still irritating to drivers actions) but because those are new and unusual behaviours for most drivers, they feel more dangerous and threatening despite being largely non-threatening to drivers.

And this is entirely before any culture war stuff, this is just normal human cognitive processing. You add on top the culture war stuff, where cyclists are the "other" and now you've got another motivation to see them as threatening.

As for using the turning lane, I've seen it from time to time, I don't think there's any cultural aspect to it, beyond "North American's are bad drivers because we have badly designed and highly congested roads". It sounds like things in the region have gotten worse than I remember (and you know how much I complain ), the things you describe really have more of a Toronto vibe to me, in Toronto what you describe was pretty common.

My parents have actually gotten annoyed at me these days, because whenever we're going somewhere, I point out the drivers who do things wrong (using a phone, illegal turn, whatever), and it's like...constant, and I realize they just didn't even notice before that this is happening constantly. They're still upset that we have moved, but I think they're starting to notice the road problem as well.

FWIW, drivers here are not perfect either, they'll break a rule that's inconvenient any time and text constantly, but the infrastructure is much more forgiving, usually they are in a much smaller vehicle, and frankly....I just don't have to deal with them very often, so I hardly even think about it.

[dtkvictim]

This might be more of a road safety thread discussion, but I think there's a pretty straightforward cognitive answer here.

You're probably right, I did consider that thread. Maybe these posts can be moved.

My parents have actually gotten annoyed at me these days, because whenever we're going somewhere, I point out the drivers who do things wrong (using a phone, illegal turn, whatever), and it's like...constant, and I realize they just didn't even notice before that this is happening constantly. They're still upset that we have moved, but I think they're starting to notice the road problem as well.

If I did that, I'd be calling out their own driving just as much... Wouldn't go over well. A benefit of having your own car is being able to turn down getting in the car with people who drive like idiots.

As for using the turning lane, I've seen it from time to time, I don't think there's any cultural aspect to it, beyond "North American's are bad drivers because we have badly designed and highly congested roads". It sounds like things in the region have gotten worse than I remember (and you know how much I complain ), the things you describe really have more of a Toronto vibe to me, in Toronto what you describe was pretty common.

Considering this left turn lane situation has happened two more times since I wrote my post (the one today blocked me and everyone behind from using the advanced left turn signal, which was followed by 2 oncoming cars running the red light while I waited to complete the left turn... ridiculous), it seems to absolutely be a part of our city's driving culture now. It does have a Toronto vibe, and so I would say it's a part of their driving culture too. So it's absolutely cultural. The question was whether this is homegrown, or has been imported. While you're completely right to criticize North American driving culture, the reality is that the majority of the rest of the world has a far, far worse driving culture than our own.

[danbrotherston]

This might be more of a road safety thread discussion, but I think there's a pretty straightforward cognitive answer here.

You're probably right, I did consider that thread. Maybe these posts can be moved.

My parents have actually gotten annoyed at me these days, because whenever we're going somewhere, I point out the drivers who do things wrong (using a phone, illegal turn, whatever), and it's like...constant, and I realize they just didn't even notice before that this is happening constantly. They're still upset that we have moved, but I think they're starting to notice the road problem as well.

If I did that, I'd be calling out their own driving just as much... Wouldn't go over well. A benefit of having your own car is being able to turn down getting in the car with people who drive like idiots.

Oof, sorry to hear that. I mean, I think I'm lucky in that way. My parents aren't perfect drivers, but at least as unbiased as I don't have a lot of complaints: they don't speed (excessively), rarely drive aggressively, and never text and drive. My parents are still wearing masks most places too...so I think it's on brand. FWIW...I am of the opinion that it's worth having unpleasant conversations with people we are close to (family, friends, neighbours, coworkers, etc.) about important issues. It's not easy, especially if they're family but ultimately nobody is in a better position to change your parents behaviours than you are. Of course, I realize this is an easy thing for me to say, I frankly, am in a bubble with people I mostly don't have an issue with. The only exception was one coworker, who, ... well I did talk to on a few occasions, but I was hardly the only one.

As for using the turning lane, I've seen it from time to time, I don't think there's any cultural aspect to it, beyond "North American's are bad drivers because we have badly designed and highly congested roads". It sounds like things in the region have gotten worse than I remember (and you know how much I complain ), the things you describe really have more of a Toronto vibe to me, in Toronto what you describe was pretty common.

Considering this left turn lane situation has happened two more times since I wrote my post (the one today blocked me and everyone behind from using the advanced left turn signal, which was followed by 2 oncoming cars running the red light while I waited to complete the left turn... ridiculous), it seems to absolutely be a part of our city's driving culture now. It does have a Toronto vibe, and so I would say it's a part of their driving culture too. So it's absolutely cultural. The question was whether this is homegrown, or has been imported. While you're completely right to criticize North American driving culture, the reality is that the majority of the rest of the world has a far, far worse driving culture than our own.

Ugh...that's incredibly frustrating. I continue to see leaving as the right choice, but it's sad to see things get worse. I remember driving in Toronto and finding it to be an absolutely intolerable experience...downright violent at times (I've been brake checked). I also saw how it was making me into an angrier person, and at the risk of quoting a bit of Star Trek, I hated that.

[Bob_McBob]

Suspended sentence for helping conceal a fatal hit and run while the victim lay dead in a ditch.

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...hener.html

[panamaniac]

Without knowing the whole story, the sentence seems awfully light.

[danbrotherston]

Without knowing the whole story, the sentence seems awfully light.

The prosecution asked for a conditional sentence of house arrest.

Given the only justification given in the article was "significant medical issues"...house arrest would have seemed to be a reasonable compromise.

To get a suspended sentence seems very light indeed.

[ijmorlan]

Without knowing the whole story, the sentence seems awfully light.

The prosecution asked for a conditional sentence of house arrest.

Given the only justification given in the article was "significant medical issues"...house arrest would have seemed to be a reasonable compromise.

To get a suspended sentence seems very light indeed.

A suspended sentence for hiding a murder?

That seems insane. It’s almost the prototypical crime that by definition is pre-meditated and done to avoid accountability for another act.

[danbrotherston]

Regional council is looking to expand their speed camera program. While this is unambiguously a good thing for safety and also for equity (cameras can’t target BIPOC, fewer potentially dangerous police interactions) the page on Reddit is absolutely throwing a tantrum (even posters who are usually progressive). Besides cars rotting your brain why do people get this so wrong?

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/commen...ansion_of/