ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[KevinT]

I'll answer your question "Why does it matter who uses it?" It matters because different people want different types of service. If you buy the author's argument and believe ridership is 75% student (it's not), and that the remainder of the people are on there because they have little choice, then you'll support service a certain way. And that would make sense, if it were true. That matters to me, because I want to take transit, I want good transit service, I'm a commuter not a student, and I don't live near the Universities.

Very well said.

I have a car which I love, but feel more and more guilty about driving because it's a gas guzzling (literally) sports car. Replacing my 50 km daily round-trip with bike + ION costs less than the gas I burn on the same trip and makes my car last longer. I've thought about going electric or hybrid, but the only hybrid that appeals to me is the Chevy Volt which is no longer made (and Consumer Reports documents a lot of issues with its comfort electronics like the radio, adaptive cruise, etc.) while the only electric that appeals to me is a Tesla which is out of my price range (when I bought the sports car I had a one bedroom condo, not a house in the burbs). The cheaper electric cars either have limited range (argh!) or uber-wonky styling (why??!!) and are not for me. (I've always felt that if you don't love your car then you're driving the wrong car, and that's a feeling I don't think I can overcome.)

I'm a tech worker in the upper middle class bracket and ION fits me great, not reluctantly, but enthusiastically.

[rickhd]

Will the outdoor temperature have any affect on the operation of the ION?   I assume since they are used all over the world in various climates there is no issue.   Would the tracks be heated during the winter?    I think more of an issue would be the ticket kiosk's and scanners.   We are getting a lot more freezing rain in the winter.

[KevinT]

it made me wonder why on earth the podiums don't make a sound? A simple mid-pitch Bing for a valid tap and low pitched Brrrrrrt! for an invalid one would be extremely helpful for both the visually impaired and the traveller on the go. It seems weird for the podiums to be completely silent. I also found the screens hard to see without shading them with my hand, adding even more value proposition to combining the display with sound.

Happy to report that Canard raised the issue with them on twitter and the response was favourable:

Again regarding the sounds, yesterday I was looking at the transaction history on my EasyGO card and my most recent trip was there but the the one from the night before was missing. On my way home last night I believe I figured out why: I tapped on the podium at R&T Park and heard the (very quiet) bing, but when I looked at the screen it showed that my card was valid and displayed the balance but had not actually deducted a fare. I had to tap it again (and look at the screen again) to see that a fare was deducted.

I think what happened was that someone ahead of me had pushed a button on the podium, and that button push either had no timeout or an extremely long one. So even though I didn't see anyone near the podium before I came along, their button push modified my first tap into a card status check rather than a fare charge / transfer. Even if the bing had been louder, it would not have been sufficient to convey that a valid fare was deducted from my card.

They really need to have some unambiguous sounds, and I really need to compile all of my feedback/suggestions into a well written letter...

[KevinL]

Will the outdoor temperature have any affect on the operation of the ION?   I assume since they are used all over the world in various climates there is no issue.   Would the tracks be heated during the winter?    I think more of an issue would be the ticket kiosk's and scanners.   We are getting a lot more freezing rain in the winter.

Extreme heat should not have too many issues, beyond the possibility of track kinks (but that generally affects bigger railroads like GO). Tracks don't need to be heated fully; there are switch heaters in place. The ticketing machinery, yes, we'll have to see how that does.

[embe]

Ok, so I'll put it out there: even it was semi-true, isn't that the point? Why does it matter who uses it? So what if it was 75% student? They be people too!

It matters to the people who say it because they believe students don't pay any taxes and are getting a massive free ride from actual taxpayers. ...

Last time I checked taxes are paid on just about every purchase in Ontario.  Do students get some sort of exemption?

[tomh009]

It matters to the people who say it because they believe students don't pay any taxes and are getting a massive free ride from actual taxpayers. ...

Last time I checked taxes are paid on just about every purchase in Ontario.  Do students get some sort of exemption?

Students will tend to pay little to no income tax. They will pay HST the same as everyone else. And contrary to many people's perception, they (indirectly) pay property taxes -- which are used to fund transit -- the same as any other tenant of a rental apartment or house. (Possible exception: I don't know whether university-owned residences are exempt from property taxes.)

[MidTowner]

Students will tend to pay little to no income tax. They will pay HST the same as everyone else. And contrary to many people's perception, they (indirectly) pay property taxes -- which are used to fund transit -- the same as any other tenant of a rental apartment or house. (Possible exception: I don't know whether university-owned residences are exempt from property taxes.)

A typical student will receive most or all of their HST paid back to them from the HST credit, I would imagine.

That's actually an interesting point about student residences. My understanding is that the provincial government transfers some amount to municipalities in lieu of property tax payments from post-secondary institutions, and that it is less than what the tax owing would be were they taxed at commercial rates.

It's neither here nor there, though. I don't think that was really the point of the editorial. The point was, no one takes transit who has a choice. Which is false.

[jeffster]

Last time I checked taxes are paid on just about every purchase in Ontario.  Do students get some sort of exemption?

Students will tend to pay little to no income tax. They will pay HST the same as everyone else. And contrary to many people's perception, they (indirectly) pay property taxes -- which are used to fund transit -- the same as any other tenant of a rental apartment or house. (Possible exception: I don't know whether university-owned residences are exempt from property taxes.)

Well, even if that were true, most students, I believe, do not live in university owned apartments. So technically, it a round about way, they do pay property tax. I'd only imagine that it would be close to $200/month per unit -- with 4 students. But I don't have hard numbers to back up anything I said.

[Coke6pk]

Jeeeeesus christ, waiting at the Uptown Square station, right as a train is turning into the station from King, an SUV came flying down the tracks TOWARDS the oncoming LRV and very nearly had a head on collision. Police officers standing around and no one did anything.

Seems that the police in this region are pretty useless when it comes to traffic issues. I contacted WRPS regarding a hit-and-run, no response back. It is what it is.

Before we bash the police too hard, I know that for opening weekend there were AUXILIARY Police at stations along the route.  Their powers to go off and deal with HTA issues are almost non-existant.

Coke

[tomh009]

Students will tend to pay little to no income tax. They will pay HST the same as everyone else. And contrary to many people's perception, they (indirectly) pay property taxes -- which are used to fund transit -- the same as any other tenant of a rental apartment or house. (Possible exception: I don't know whether university-owned residences are exempt from property taxes.)

Well, even if that were true, most students, I believe, do not live in university owned apartments. So technically, it a round about way, they do pay property tax. I'd only imagine that it would be close to $200/month per unit -- with 4 students. But I don't have hard numbers to back up anything I said.

That's why I said "exception".

[Coke6pk]

I don’t blame Conestoga Mall for not giving up their parking spots for free.  Although I think a better business decision would have been to embrace the free week.  Advertise to people they could come and park this week only and then make it clear that once regular service starts they aren’t a park and ride.  

When I took a "tourist train" last Friday, I'd say 90% of the people on board walked towards the mall [I'm assuming they went shopping... there wasn't a huge line to get on the next train going back to Fairway].  So either they all parked in Conestoga to get the train, or Conestoga had a bunch of shoppers delivered to them.

Yes, there will be people who abuse the parking lot, but many will take the train to become shopper there and it will wash out in the end.

The only issue if nothing is done, you will have mall parking lots filled with students/workers paying for a $70 transit pass instead of the $130 parking downtown (or whatever University lots charge)

Coke

[ijmorlan]

The only issue if nothing is done, you will have mall parking lots filled with students/workers paying for a $70 transit pass instead of the $130 parking downtown (or whatever University lots charge)

Coke

$42.94/month:

https://uwaterloo.ca/parking/stafffaculty-parking

Ridiculous, I know. Especially because they have waiting lists for some lots. Evidently it never occurred to them to set prices differently in the different lots and eliminate the waiting lists. Also it would make it obvious when to build a parking structure: when the fees in a lot rise high enough that the existing plus projected future surplus is enough to fund the construction and maintenance of such a structure, that, almost by definition, is when it makes sense to build the parking structure.

[ijmorlan]

Students will tend to pay little to no income tax.

However, that is because they have little to no income, not because they are students. So it is not correct to say that “students” don’t pay income tax unless it is clear that one is talking about a tendency or correlation.

Sort of like how I say that drivers do not pay for the roads they use, even though everybody pays for the roads.

[Coke6pk]

When it comes down to it, it's police policy to park wherever they want for their convenience. Does an officer responding to a shoplifting call at Walmart have to park on the sidewalk beside the entrance? No, of course not. If you call them on it, they'll just say it's department policy in case they have to respond to another call. There will always be an excuse like this, and in the end they can park wherever they please and nobody can do anything about it because they're above the law in this respect. If they feel like blocking an entire LRT station rather than parking across the street, they'll do it, and that's the end of it.

I'd be wary of making statements that they think they are above the law.  If the law provides an exemption for them (Which parking by-laws do), they are operating within the law.  You may not like it, but its legal.

I have a lot of respect for the police and other law enforcement (in most cases), and as a member of this group, I won't play "what ifs" in internet arguments.  Sometimes there are reasons for something that others outside the LE community wouldn't understand.  No different than how car drivers don't get cyclists or transit riders POV. 

As an Auxiliary officer in this community, I learned at an event in Cambridge that where I parked my cruiser blocked a bike lane.  I pulled to the right to avoid traffic.  When I was out in the intersection, I ended up apologizing to cyclists as they went around my vehicle for "parking in their lane".  [Ironically, it was the Tour de Grand, a bike race].  This year, I parked my cruiser in the full right lane of traffic, and left the bike lane clear.  The only reason I felt bad is that I had learned from the views of avid cyclists in this forum... and I pass that along to colleagues.  We are constantly learning new things, and its sometimes hard to break old habits.

I know WRPS has LRT specific online training over the next few months, and perhaps that will help change the "non-enforcement" mindset we have seen recently. [I haven't taken it yet, so I don't know what it discusses]

Coke

[Bob_McBob]

I have no qualms about describing police officers as being above the law in this respect. A common definition of "above the law" is "exempt from the laws that apply to everyone else".

The exemption for emergency services in Kitchener's parking by-law only applies when complying with the by-law would be "impractical". It is clear to almost everyone WRPS has an extremely generous definition of what constitutes impractical in many situations.