ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[jeffster]

As has been stated to the end in the thread, park at home, ride bus to LRT :p

Exactly. I don't understand why someone would drive their vehicle, just to park it in order to take public transit? Why not just take public transit to begin with - or drive? It's not like there are many neighbourhoods in the city without adequate service, including north Waterloo.

Suppose one wants to shop at Conestoga Mall, then take the train to Uptown Waterloo for some shopping then DTK for lunch, etc. If one lives near Conestoga Mall, this makes sense. If you're close to Uptown Waterloo, then use the parkade, or one of several garages in Kitchener if you're close to that.

Personally, being in Kitchener, I wouldn't travel to Conestoga Mall to take the LRT -- it defeats the purpose. I might park at Charles and Benton though, and head in whatever direction from there, as I am close to there, and it doesn't defeat the purpose of the LRT. Better yet, take the bus to Mill Station and go from there - if you can.

Now why would some take the car to take the LRT? Perhaps they have a disability, or they're a senior, and can't walk the distance to nearest bus station, and perhaps can't risk having to stand on a bus. Whenever I ride the bus and see someone that obviously needs a seat more than me, I will give it up, but whenever I have used the bus, it seems that my way of thinking is the exception, not the rule (as an observer already standing, or at the back of the bus). My last experience on GRT was watching a couple people with their bags taking up 5 seats and not bothering to give up a single seat for a mother with a stroller and baby nor the elderly person that also got on. I also saw this in Toronto quite a bit, including some lady laying down across 4 seats reading her Kindle.

[danbrotherston]

Exactly. I don't understand why someone would drive their vehicle, just to park it in order to take public transit? Why not just take public transit to begin with - or drive? It's not like there are many neighbourhoods in the city without adequate service, including north Waterloo.

Suppose one wants to shop at Conestoga Mall, then take the train to Uptown Waterloo for some shopping then DTK for lunch, etc. If one lives near Conestoga Mall, this makes sense. If you're close to Uptown Waterloo, then use the parkade, or one of several garages in Kitchener if you're close to that.

Personally, being in Kitchener, I wouldn't travel to Conestoga Mall to take the LRT -- it defeats the purpose. I might park at Charles and Benton though, and head in whatever direction from there, as I am close to there, and it doesn't defeat the purpose of the LRT. Better yet, take the bus to Mill Station and go from there - if you can.

Now why would some take the car to take the LRT? Perhaps they have a disability, or they're a senior, and can't walk the distance to nearest bus station, and perhaps can't risk having to stand on a bus. Whenever I ride the bus and see someone that obviously needs a seat more than me, I will give it up, but whenever I have used the bus, it seems that my way of thinking is the exception, not the rule (as an observer already standing, or at the back of the bus). My last experience on GRT was watching a couple people with their bags taking up 5 seats and not bothering to give up a single seat for a mother with a stroller and baby nor the elderly person that also got on.  I also saw this in Toronto quite a bit, including some lady laying down across 4 seats reading her Kindle.

Yes, I'm sure we can all come up with examples of why people will drive to LRT stations, but we need to look at the actual numbers--how many people in the city would actually do this? We have a park and ride in the south so we can actually get very good numbers on this. Additionally, we must look at how it costs to provide parking, vs. how much benefit does it provide to the transit system, and mobility in general, vs. what else could be provided for that money. Keep in mind building even a surface parking space can cost 10k dollars alone, and that will carry, at best, one rider per day. Is there a cheaper way to get another rider, one that perhaps doesn't come with all the other costs of car drivership in the city?

There are rude everywhere. Rude people on transit are annoying and frustrate me.  Rude people in cars try to kill me. I'll suffer through rude people on transit every time.

[MidTowner]

I take the bus daily, and I've never had the experience of someone refusing to give up a seat when asked politely. I've pointed out to other riders on the bus that someone has boarded who might need the seat, and every time that person has rushed to vacate it, apologetically.

But I allow that other people's experiences may differ.

[tomh009]

I take the bus daily, and I've never had the experience of someone refusing to give up a seat when asked politely. I've pointed out to other riders on the bus that someone has boarded who might need the seat, and every time that person has rushed to vacate it, apologetically.

But I allow that other people's experiences may differ.

This. Teaching people some manners.

[tomh009]

So how full have the trains been this week, during the week, at the worst? Standing-room only, yes, but how tightly packed?

[robdrimmie]

So how full have the trains been this week, during the week, at the worst? Standing-room only, yes, but how tightly packed?

I rode the train on Tuesday evening, getting on at Victoria Park Station at 4:35. All the seats were full and a lot of people were clustered by the door. I was able to make my way through to a somewhat more open space near the connection between two cars (where there are no handholds, which contributes to the clustering, but I don't know how there could be on the bendy rubber bits) before getting to Borden Station where the train got even more packed. I got off at Mill Street where a lot more people were getting on.

This morning on my bus ride in (it would have been approximately 8:30 at this point) , we were side-by-side with a Conestoga-bound train around Cameron Heights and it appeared to be quite full, with several people standing, but not jam-packed. A Fairway-bound train we passed a moment later appeared to have no one standing. I walked past another Fairway-bound train at Victoria Park station sometime around 8:45 and there were empty seats and no one was standing.

[tomh009]

So it sounds like crowded but not close to Tokyo rush-hour-level packing (e.g. can barely move your arms) yet. Right?

[robdrimmie]

So it sounds like crowded but not close to Tokyo rush-hour-level packing (e.g. can barely move your arms) yet. Right?

Not on any trips I've been on thus far, but that's only two, and it's difficult to assess from outside the train.

[Acitta]

I got on at Mill Station southbound at around 9PM and it was standing room only. I stayed on at Fairway and a lot of people got on and it continued to be quite full till past Waterloo Town Square. It had thinned out by the time it arrived at Conestoga and was less than half full when leaving there. I continued back to Mill Station and got off around 10:30 or so with not very many people on the train.

[KevinL]

 a somewhat more open space near the connection between two cars (where there are no handholds, which contributes to the clustering, but I don't know how there could be on the bendy rubber bits)

There are stanchions either side of the bellows, and you can use those to stand in that area. Just watch out for your grip to shift when the train turns.

[taylortbb]

So how full have the trains been this week, during the week, at the worst? Standing-room only, yes, but how tightly packed?

From listening to ION control there have been a few trains so full that not everyone was able to board. But that's generally been after a delay where there was an extra 5-10 minute gap between trains. This week the system is definitely operating without a lot of spare capacity, and small delays quickly become larger problems as passengers build up.

[jamincan]

 a somewhat more open space near the connection between two cars (where there are no handholds, which contributes to the clustering, but I don't know how there could be on the bendy rubber bits)

There are stanchions either side of the bellows, and you can use those to stand in that area. Just watch out for your grip to shift when the train turns.

One set of grips doesn't move relative to the floor, the other is attached to the adjacent section and does move. And it is a nuisance. It would be nicer if both grips were stationary, but then I think it would end up pinching the person sitting in the adjacent section.

[danbrotherston]

There are stanchions either side of the bellows, and you can use those to stand in that area. Just watch out for your grip to shift when the train turns.

One set of grips doesn't move relative to the floor, the other is attached to the adjacent section and does move. And it is a nuisance. It would be nicer if both grips were stationary, but then I think it would end up pinching the person sitting in the adjacent section.

I don't think it's possible for both grips to be stationary relative to the part inside the bellows.  The bellows connects two 'cars', but the floor is fixed relative to one car, thus the other side of the bellows MUST move relative to the floor, and the floor must pivot somewhere, in this case around one edge of the bellows section.

That being said, I don't mind this at all, I've stood there a few times, it's kind of fun, although I'm sure some will prefer not too.

[MidTowner]

Having ridden transit in various parts of the developing world, I consider most of the trips I've taken this past week to be "crowded" but far from crush load. I've barely even touched any fellow passengers! Tom, your test is a good one: if you can move your arms around, it's not that full.

But it has been quite busy, especially when delayed. I got on one at GRH to University that was running behind schedule yesterday afternoon, and it was quite full, hard to circulate back to the doors.

[jamincan]

One set of grips doesn't move relative to the floor, the other is attached to the adjacent section and does move. And it is a nuisance. It would be nicer if both grips were stationary, but then I think it would end up pinching the person sitting in the adjacent section.

I don't think it's possible for both grips to be stationary relative to the part inside the bellows.  The bellows connects two 'cars', but the floor is fixed relative to one car, thus the other side of the bellows MUST move relative to the floor, and the floor must pivot somewhere, in this case around one edge of the bellows section.

That being said, I don't mind this at all, I've stood there a few times, it's kind of fun, although I'm sure some will prefer not too.

It could be fixed to either side, they would just have to make it not fixed to the floor at that point (which does move), and instead use some sort of lateral support to fix it to the adjacent section. The reason they didn't do this, I suspect, is that it would then hit the passenger sitting next to it through turns.