ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[danbrotherston]

1-2 minutes is the same cycle as a red light at a major intersection.

Clearly 1-2 minutes every 5 minutes at the most frequent won't be a problem for Northfield, which already has intersections that are red for 1-2 minutes ever 2 minutes.

Sure, but there wasn't an existing intersection there, and major delays in that section of road combined with the expressway on-ramp and traffic from Parkside Dr can easily back up cars to Weber St. We've already discussed the related issue where a train at Northfield Station can cause the signal to stay down for extended periods of time. I appreciate the common refrain that an LRV may be carrying far more people than are waiting in the cars at the intersection, but that doesn't mean we should have lower standards for signal timing than other cities with LRTs to the point a major car route becomes a choke point.

I was also annoyed about CTV's inaccurate reporting about track lubrication. How hard is it to research something that's been ongoing for years?

I just don't think once the signals are timed right, this will be a major choke point for cars.  If there's one thing we know about most of our regional traffic engineers is that they will jump through any hoop, spend any money in order to ensure convenient flow of traffic every minute of every day.

I do think our society is overly obsessed with fixing traffic congestion that occurs for a max of an hour a day, spending enormous sums of money and untold lives on fixing that one hour of time.  I think we *should* have lower standards for congestion.  But that's unrelated to the LRT.

[Rainrider22]

Apparently Keolis' goal for ION signal timing is "1-2 minutes," which seems far too long to me based on watching a bunch of C-Train videos where they typically last no more than 40-60 seconds. Northfield would be nearly unusable in one direction with the signals down half the time during rush hour in addition to any pedestrian crossings.

3 things to know before the Ion launches

3 things to know about the media 

The media has extreme bias and prejeduce against the Ion project 

The media is hoping for complete failure so they can do another award winning investigative article on the "I told you so"

The media always targets the negative on this project and does not show positive

[MacBerry]

Apparently Keolis' goal for ION signal timing is "1-2 minutes," which seems far too long to me based on watching a bunch of C-Train videos where they typically last no more than 40-60 seconds. Northfield would be nearly unusable in one direction with the signals down half the time during rush hour in addition to any pedestrian crossings.

3 things to know before the Ion launches

If you go to Europe the wait before and after any LRTs, it is seconds not minutes. These "goals" or times would be causing revolts by bicyclists and by vehicles ... You would think this new LRT was the invention of LRT travel and city life 

[tomh009]

Apparently Keolis' goal for ION signal timing is "1-2 minutes," which seems far too long to me based on watching a bunch of C-Train videos where they typically last no more than 40-60 seconds. Northfield would be nearly unusable in one direction with the signals down half the time during rush hour in addition to any pedestrian crossings.

3 things to know before the Ion launches

If you go to Europe the wait before and after any LRTs, it is seconds not minutes. These "goals" or times would be causing revolts by bicyclists and by vehicles ... You would think this new LRT was the invention of LRT travel and city life 

But the 1-2 minutes is for the entire process …

1. Start signal, gate raises
   
2. Gate is down, waiting for train arrive
   
3. Train passes
   
4. Gate is down, waiting for train to leave
   
5. Gate lowers, signal ends
   

The train itself probably takes 15-20 seconds to pass, so a minute for the entire process seems not unreasonable. Of course "1-2 minutes" is actually a fairly big range.

[Bob_McBob]

You can no longer turn right on red from Caroline to Erb heading west (away from uptown). It's apparently causing some significant traffic backups.

[danbrotherston]

You can no longer turn right on red from Caroline to Erb heading west (away from uptown). It's apparently causing some significant traffic backups.

Is there a new sign?

There are often backups here before.  This light is configured terribly.

I also noticed that the railway gates take up almost all of the island. I don't know what a group of people would do if the train came.

[bgb_ca]

I just saw an idiot in uptown blocking the track turn lane heading into waterloo public square blocking a train (501? It had no number) from going though, despite the train blowing his horn several times. The train had to wait for the lights to go green, and the driver to clear the intersection before waiting for the next cycle.

[danbrotherston]

I just saw an idiot in uptown blocking the track turn lane heading into waterloo public square blocking a train (501? It had no number) from going though, despite the train blowing his horn several times. The train had to wait for the lights to go green, and the driver to clear the intersection before waiting for the next cycle.

:| <- my shocked face.

[ijmorlan]

I just saw an idiot in uptown blocking the track turn lane heading into waterloo public square blocking a train (501? It had no number) from going though, despite the train blowing his horn several times. The train had to wait for the lights to go green, and the driver to clear the intersection before waiting for the next cycle.

Just for interest, which direction was the car going? I’m guessing the car driver thought they were avoiding running a red, even though if they’re on the track they must be in the intersection and therefore must exit the intersection forthwith (and if they can’t, they’re already running a red because they entered the intersection without ensuring they can leave).

[bgb_ca]

I just saw an idiot in uptown blocking the track turn lane heading into waterloo public square blocking a train (501? It had no number) from going though, despite the train blowing his horn several times. The train had to wait for the lights to go green, and the driver to clear the intersection before waiting for the next cycle.

Just for interest, which direction was the car going? I’m guessing the car driver thought they were avoiding running a red, even though if they’re on the track they must be in the intersection and therefore must exit the intersection forthwith (and if they can’t, they’re already running a red because they entered the intersection without ensuring they can leave).

Towards conestoga mall

[ijmorlan]

Isn’t that what cowcatchers are for?

[ijmorlan]

Towards conestoga mall

Thanks. I have often noticed vehicles stopped “in the intersection”, although usually they actually fit between the LRT and freight tracks. People seem to have a problem with stop lines that appear further back than expected.

[danbrotherston]

Towards conestoga mall

Thanks. I have often noticed vehicles stopped “in the intersection”, although usually they actually fit between the LRT and freight tracks. People seem to have a problem with stop lines that appear further back than expected.

Lol.  People have a problem with stop lines in general, but ones that are farther back are even more problematic.

In the Netherlands, as I recall, the traffic signals are on the near side of the road, and usually to the side of traffic. This means drivers rarely overrun a stop line or block a crosswalk as they can't see the light if they do. Of course, we put the light at the far side so that they can see the light when they overrun the stop line--like...that is the purpose of putting the light on the far side.  Just one of those interesting little differences.

[panamaniac]

In this particular case, where the car would be well beyond the stop line, what would be the correct response to the horn of the LRT? Proceed through the red light and crosswalk?

[ijmorlan]

You can no longer turn right on red from Caroline to Erb heading west (away from uptown). It's apparently causing some significant traffic backups.

I waited to respond until morning, after I had a chance to see for myself, because even my jaded self had trouble believing our traffic engineers would do something so stupid.

Sure enough, there is indeed a “no right turn on red” sign on southbound Caroline at Erb.

When I got there, southbound traffic was dutifully waiting at the red. An LRV arrived, and I snuck across with my bike on the all-red before the gates started to come down. The LRV went through, and then the lights went to green … for Erb. Traffic continued to wait. Finally Caroline got a green, by which time traffic was backed up around the curve, probably all the way to Bridgeport (the LRV happened to be on the southbound track, so Caroline straight-through traffic should have got a green, but that’s another story). Note that this was at about 09:30 this morning, hardly the maximum traffic portion of the day.

When the light is red, the only traffic which conflicts with the right turn is pedestrians crossing to and from the island. If it works for car traffic to yield to pedestrians on the green, then they’re capable of yielding to pedestrians on the red. So no matter ones position on right-turn-on-red, it should definitely be allowed here. Also, side note, it’s not clear to me that regular intersection traffic lights control separated right turn lanes. If the light controls it, what is the yield sign for? Without the island it would go without saying that turning traffic must yield to pedestrians. So really the no-right-turn sign should be considered moot, as there is no traffic light controlling the right turn lane.

This right turn lane is already a 1-lane bottleneck in what is mostly a 2- or 3-lane route across town; to subject it to an utterly pointless interruption every time the light turns red is just insane.

I wonder what they think they’re doing? My already low opinion of our traffic engineers has gone down still further.