GO Transit

[ac3r]

Who owns the track west of downtown kitchener? 

That is the CN Guelph Subdivision.

It's highly unlikely GO would expand westbound to The Boardwalk - that's only about a 6 kilometer distance from the main station downtown. This is the CN mainline into the USA so CN is highly unlikely to yield their track to even more commuter train service, as they're already having to accommodate GO and VIA trains up to Kitchener. I don't see them ever expanding further, either (i.e. Stratford, London) as GO Transit is a suburban/commuter train service and those cities are just way too far to justify running trains from there to Toronto - that's the job for VIA.

FYI if anyone is interested in a detailed map about railroads, check out OpenRailwayMap. It's not 100% accurate, but they do have a lot of data for the world, showing everything from current mainlines and spurs to century old abandoned tracks in the middle of nowhere. It's quite a useful resource.

[danbrotherston]

Who owns the track west of downtown kitchener? 

That is the CN Guelph Subdivision.

It's highly unlikely GO would expand westbound to The Boardwalk - that's only about a 6 kilometer distance from the main station downtown. This is the CN mainline into the USA so CN is highly unlikely to yield their track to even more commuter train service, as they're already having to accommodate GO and VIA trains up to Kitchener. I don't see them ever expanding further, either (i.e. Stratford, London) as GO Transit is a suburban/commuter train service and those cities are just way too far to justify running trains from there to Toronto - that's the job for VIA.

FYI if anyone is interested in a detailed map about railroads, check out OpenRailwayMap. It's not 100% accurate, but they do have a lot of data for the world, showing everything from current mainlines and spurs to century old abandoned tracks in the middle of nowhere. It's quite a useful resource.

It is definitely not the "main" track. I see the map you posted is calling it "main" but that's just not being a "branch". The main CN freight route branches off just west of Georgetown. It's the whole reason that Metrolinx is able to own this segment.  I'm not even certain that it is a CN line, (although I'm less certain about that--but the Metrolinx map agrees with me which lists it as "other"). Speed restrictions are very low (50-60km/h) and the rail is in poor condition. It does carry some freight trains, but the main route into the US travels south and goes through Woodstock before entering London.

[jamincan]

I'm pretty sure CN's main line to Detroit/Chicago from Toronto is through Brantford.

[KevinL]

Yeah, this line is not heavily used - the Stratford-St Marys portion is in particularly rough shape.

If GO put a station at Ira Needles or New Hamburg, I can picture the track being upgraded from there to downtown, and perhaps even doubled.

[ac3r]

My bad - it isn't their mainline, but it is definitely owned by CN. Either way, I doubt we'd ever see GO trains go any further west of Kitchener. New Hamburg might be a possibility one day if the corridor from New Hamburg-Baden-Petersburg became developed enough.

[danbrotherston]

Yeah, this line is not heavily used - the Stratford-St Marys portion is in particularly rough shape.

If GO put a station at Ira Needles or New Hamburg, I can picture the track being upgraded from there to downtown, and perhaps even doubled.

They don't even plan to double it east of Downtown at the moment.

I honestly don't get why our pols are putting up with this. There is zero reasonable plan to get AD2W Go into KW, it's pretty clear the plan at this point is to string us along until they are out of power.

[Bytor]

Who owns the track west of downtown kitchener? 

That is the CN Guelph Subdivision.

No, it's the Metrolinx Guelph Subdivision. They bought it from CN several years ago.

[Coke6pk]

That is the CN Guelph Subdivision.

No, it's the Metrolinx Guelph Subdivision. They bought it from CN several years ago.

I knew this happened, but the issue is the area past Kitchener marked on the map as "Other", meaning not CN nor Metrolinx.

I Google'd "Guelph Subdivision" and found a link to niagararails.com which lists the Mextrolinx Guelph Subdivision (Formerly CN Guelph Subdivision) has a junction in Kitchener where it meets GEXR Waterloo Subdivision.  This would make sense, but its weird that GEXR does not claim ownership on their website, showing their track starting in Stratford.  This same website shows it as being CN controlled until it gets to London (and meets CN Dundas Subdivision)

Did Metrolinx take part ownership of the Subdivision (Halton to Kitchener mile marker), and the rest remains with CN? 

All very confusing. LOL

Coke

[danbrotherston]

That is the CN Guelph Subdivision.

No, it's the Metrolinx Guelph Subdivision. They bought it from CN several years ago.

Metrolinx only bought east of Kitchener, I'm not sure how far west their track extends exactly, but the map clearly shows ownership changing around DTK.

Certainly at some point, to the west, ownership transitions.

[bgb_ca]

No, it's the Metrolinx Guelph Subdivision. They bought it from CN several years ago.

Metrolinx only bought east of Kitchener, I'm not sure how far west their track extends exactly, but the map clearly shows ownership changing around DTK.

Certainly at some point, to the west, ownership transitions.

My guess is around the split by Park Street.

[ijmorlan]

No, it's the Metrolinx Guelph Subdivision. They bought it from CN several years ago.

I knew this happened, but the issue is the area past Kitchener marked on the map as "Other", meaning not CN nor Metrolinx.

I Google'd "Guelph Subdivision" and found a link to niagararails.com which lists the Mextrolinx Guelph Subdivision (Formerly CN Guelph Subdivision) has a junction in Kitchener where it meets GEXR Waterloo Subdivision.  This would make sense, but its weird that GEXR does not claim ownership on their website, showing their track starting in Stratford.  This same website shows it as being CN controlled until it gets to London (and meets CN Dundas Subdivision)

I believe GEXR previously leased the line through Kitchener, from Silver (Georgetown) to farther west than I know anything about. It was always owned by CN. But now CN has taken back operation of the line, terminating their lease to GEXR, at least as far as Stratford. And apparently sold it to Metrolinx east of Kitchener. My guess is the cutover point is far enough west of Park St. for GO parking operations to take place entirely on GO-owned trackage, i.e., at least a bit more than one train length west of the switch to the parking siding just west of Park.

[kps]

Region/city GIS put it at the west edge of Park St.

[Coke6pk]

I was out near Ira Needles, and made a detour at Glasgow St. The rail crossing there has obviously new signage saying in emergency to contact CN.

Despite the "other" listed on the map, whomever stated it was CN I will crown as absolutely correct.

Coke

[nms]

In related railway news, does anyone want to go splits on a used trainset to do a proof of concept of more frequent east-west train service in Waterloo Region (and possibly to Guelph and/or Stratford)? The City of Ottawa no longer needs their Bombardier Talent trains.

For years now, I've wondered about the feasibility of working with the railway companies that use the CN line through Kitchener to add a short rail service that runs between New Hamburg and Breslau and points in between. A sample route might be:
- New Hamburg
- Baden
- (Petersburg)
- West Kitchener (ie around the Boardwalk)
- King St/Victoria
- (Bingeman's/River Road)
- Breslau
- And return

To keep things simple and to avoid the need to cross Regional boundaries, the service would be limited to stops in Waterloo Region.  If the service became popular, it might even stretch west to Stratford and east to Guelph.

[danbrotherston]

In related railway news, does anyone want to go splits on a used trainset to do a proof of concept of more frequent east-west train service in Waterloo Region (and possibly to Guelph and/or Stratford)? The City of Ottawa no longer needs their Bombardier Talent trains.

For years now, I've wondered about the feasibility of working with the railway companies that use the CN line through Kitchener to add a short rail service that runs between New Hamburg and Breslau and points in between. A sample route might be:
- New Hamburg
- Baden
- (Petersburg)
- West Kitchener (ie around the Boardwalk)
- King St/Victoria
- (Bingeman's/River Road)
- Breslau
- And return

To keep things simple and to avoid the need to cross Regional boundaries, the service would be limited to stops in Waterloo Region.  If the service became popular, it might even stretch west to Stratford and east to Guelph.

Shame to see those transets go to waste, but I suspect the biggest capital cost would be the stations, and operationally, it's a single track, you either have to make a massive capital investment of twinning some sections, or have extremely infrequent service, and man, that's assuming GO and CN let you make exclusive use of the tracks during your service hours.

But it is a nice dream, that would be a useful service.