Winter Walking and Cycling

[jeffster]

A relative of mine lives in a corner house in Cambridge. The sidewalk that runs up the side of their property includes both the community mailbox and bus stop for the area. Their realtor heavily implied the city would be responsible for clearing it because of these features when they were buying the house, despite me showing them the Cambridge sidewalk snow removal map that said otherwise.

Earlier in the winter they made a reasonable effort to clear the sidewalk, but at some point they apparently just stopped doing it. They have a new baby and they're really busy all the time, which might be a reasonable excuse, except the fact remains a very heavily used section of sidewalk is now going uncleared. The windrow has built up, there's only a very narrow path down the middle of the sidewalk from people walking on it, and even the mailbox and bus station pads they're not responsible for have a lot of snow built up. I'm not about to tattle on my relative, but I'm amazed they haven't been reported and fined yet. It just struck me as a perfect example of how utterly ineffective the current enforcement system is when hundreds of people are being affected on a daily basis and not a single one of them reports it.

Yeah, anyone buying a home needs to avoid corner properties. Not only do you have a sidewalk that is 3 to 5 time the size of other properties, if you have a CMB and bus stop, it's even worse. Personally at a minimum, the city/grt/canada post should be responsible for clearing bus stops and CMB's as well as corn windrows that the plow leaves behind.

When I was younger I was a super and the apartment (small one) was on a corner. Nothing but a pain in the ass.

[neonjoe]

I've seen contractors cleaning the CMBs and Bus stops in my area pretty frequently. (Rosenberg)
A good neighbour will clear them before the contractors come in to do it since it usually seems like it takes a few days.

[danbrotherston]

I've seen contractors cleaning the CMBs and Bus stops in my area pretty frequently. (Rosenberg)
A good neighbour will clear them before the contractors come in to do it since it usually seems like it takes a few days.

Bus stops are cleared (poorly) by GRT's contractors.

But the SLA is absolute trash. They are not even supposed to begin until 24 hours after the end of snow (so that they don't have to come back since the city will be done ploughing), and they have something like 72 hours AFTER that point to finish. I don't know about the current contractor, but the previous contractor basically waited until 72 hours after snowfall ended to even begin clearing, with the hope it would snow again, restarting the timer.

[jeffster]

I've seen contractors cleaning the CMBs and Bus stops in my area pretty frequently. (Rosenberg)
A good neighbour will clear them before the contractors come in to do it since it usually seems like it takes a few days.

Bus stops are cleared (poorly) by GRT's contractors.

But the SLA is absolute trash. They are not even supposed to begin until 24 hours after the end of snow (so that they don't have to come back since the city will be done ploughing), and they have something like 72 hours AFTER that point to finish. I don't know about the current contractor, but the previous contractor basically waited until 72 hours after snowfall ended to even begin clearing, with the hope it would snow again, restarting the timer.

I noticed that one of the Xpress stops, on Ottawa between Mowat and Westmount (DT bound) is still not cleared, and you see people struggling to get onto the bus. The stop closest to my house hasn't been clear since the big storm in January. In both cases, they're not attached to peoples homes.

I think one of the issues is that we haven't had a tough winter in a number of years, and with the way budgets are made, if you don't use it, you lose it. Maybe this is why so many areas remain snow covered.

[ijmorlan]

I think one of the issues is that we haven't had a tough winter in a number of years, and with the way budgets are made, if you don't use it, you lose it. Maybe this is why so many areas remain snow covered.

Yet another example of systemic incompetence, if true. Only a total incompetent would make the snow clearing budget work that way.

It’s questionable everywhere but clearly incorrect for snow clearing.

That being said, I’m not sure that’s how the snow clearing budget works. Does anybody know specifically what the process is? I can imagine a city council foolishly trimming the snow budget after a few years of using it less when obviously they should be saving up so that a snowy winter doesn’t blow out the rest of the budget but instead just causes them to use up the accumulated surplus in the snow budget. Also the snow budget year should span an entire winter season regardless of what fiscal year the rest of the budget uses.

This is a case where real world considerations trump any accounting principles that accounting experts might know which I don’t know.

[danbrotherston]

I think one of the issues is that we haven't had a tough winter in a number of years, and with the way budgets are made, if you don't use it, you lose it. Maybe this is why so many areas remain snow covered.

Yet another example of systemic incompetence, if true. Only a total incompetent would make the snow clearing budget work that way.

It’s questionable everywhere but clearly incorrect for snow clearing.

That being said, I’m not sure that’s how the snow clearing budget works. Does anybody know specifically what the process is? I can imagine a city council foolishly trimming the snow budget after a few years of using it less when obviously they should be saving up so that a snowy winter doesn’t blow out the rest of the budget but instead just causes them to use up the accumulated surplus in the snow budget. Also the snow budget year should span an entire winter season regardless of what fiscal year the rest of the budget uses.

This is a case where real world considerations trump any accounting principles that accounting experts might know which I don’t know.

The city's budget includes stabilisation funds, so in years where there is little snow, it comes in under budget and the funds increase, and in years where there is a lot of snow, they draw down those funds.

They try to project the average cost, but it's becoming more difficult with climate change.

But this is for city sidewalk and road clearing.

The bus stops are cleared by a contractor with an SLA...if the bus stops are not being cleared, which I completely believe, call the region, they may complain at their contractor a little more.

But in all likelihood, nothing will change. GRT replaces it's contractor for non-performance every couple of years...it's like a regular thing at this point.

[ijmorlan]

But in all likelihood, nothing will change. GRT replaces it's contractor for non-performance every couple of years...it's like a regular thing at this point.

They should get rid of the contractor and hire staff. Enough already.

Not that it’s magic to have your own staff, but at least there wouldn’t be a middleman actively trying to do the least possible work while still receiving the payment.

And the LRT stops definitely should have had snowmelt systems installed. Actually, now that I think of it, I wonder how feasible it would be to install snowmelt systems in bus stops as they are built, moved, or rebuilt? The actual area to be covered would not be all that large. I see a potential problem with large piles of snow being pushed into the melt area; I don’t have a good sense of how well snowmelt systems can deal with that.

[danbrotherston]

But in all likelihood, nothing will change. GRT replaces it's contractor for non-performance every couple of years...it's like a regular thing at this point.

They should get rid of the contractor and hire staff. Enough already.

Not that it’s magic to have your own staff, but at least there wouldn’t be a middleman actively trying to do the least possible work while still receiving the payment.

And the LRT stops definitely should have had snowmelt systems installed. Actually, now that I think of it, I wonder how feasible it would be to install snowmelt systems in bus stops as they are built, moved, or rebuilt? The actual area to be covered would not be all that large. I see a potential problem with large piles of snow being pushed into the melt area; I don’t have a good sense of how well snowmelt systems can deal with that.

I think snowmelt systems might be overkill for bus stops, we have thousands of them, few with any electrical service...but, what we can probably do, cheaper and easier in the long term, is simply build more substantial shelters. It wouldn't eliminate the need for snow removal, but it would greatly reduce it, and also greatly improve the waiting experience at bus stops in general.

[jeffster]

I think one of the issues is that we haven't had a tough winter in a number of years, and with the way budgets are made, if you don't use it, you lose it. Maybe this is why so many areas remain snow covered.

Yet another example of systemic incompetence, if true. Only a total incompetent would make the snow clearing budget work that way.

It’s questionable everywhere but clearly incorrect for snow clearing.

That being said, I’m not sure that’s how the snow clearing budget works. Does anybody know specifically what the process is? I can imagine a city council foolishly trimming the snow budget after a few years of using it less when obviously they should be saving up so that a snowy winter doesn’t blow out the rest of the budget but instead just causes them to use up the accumulated surplus in the snow budget. Also the snow budget year should span an entire winter season regardless of what fiscal year the rest of the budget uses.

This is a case where real world considerations trump any accounting principles that accounting experts might know which I don’t know.

It's rules set out by governments, IIRC. Government as in The Province of Ontario, and it was either from the Harris years or the McWynne years, I can't remember.

Regular snow clearing should have the same budget every year, but if you have 5 years of going under budget, then the budget might change.

As for bus stops, it's either budget related or simply staff aren't verifying that work is being completed.

[jeffster]

They should get rid of the contractor and hire staff. Enough already.

Not that it’s magic to have your own staff, but at least there wouldn’t be a middleman actively trying to do the least possible work while still receiving the payment.

And the LRT stops definitely should have had snowmelt systems installed. Actually, now that I think of it, I wonder how feasible it would be to install snowmelt systems in bus stops as they are built, moved, or rebuilt? The actual area to be covered would not be all that large. I see a potential problem with large piles of snow being pushed into the melt area; I don’t have a good sense of how well snowmelt systems can deal with that.

I think snowmelt systems might be overkill for bus stops, we have thousands of them, few with any electrical service...but, what we can probably do, cheaper and easier in the long term, is simply build more substantial shelters. It wouldn't eliminate the need for snow removal, but it would greatly reduce it, and also greatly improve the waiting experience at bus stops in general.

Snowmelt systems would be great, but they'd have to installed right to the curb, and even at that, snowplows leave huge windrows which would likely interfere with the system.

Snowmelt systems work great, btw, but likely should the limited to LRT stops.

Maybe we should have a citizens group that can twitter post the sites that are not maintained properly.

[danbrotherston]

I think snowmelt systems might be overkill for bus stops, we have thousands of them, few with any electrical service...but, what we can probably do, cheaper and easier in the long term, is simply build more substantial shelters. It wouldn't eliminate the need for snow removal, but it would greatly reduce it, and also greatly improve the waiting experience at bus stops in general.

Snowmelt systems would be great, but they'd have to installed right to the curb, and even at that, snowplows leave huge windrows which would likely interfere with the system.

Snowmelt systems work great, btw, but likely should the limited to LRT stops.

Maybe we should have a citizens group that can twitter post the sites that are not maintained properly.

Actually this is a good point, they'd actually have to be installed past the curb, since the ploughs generally don't push snow all the way to the curb (why we decide to have wider roads for "snow storage" instead of storing snow in the much cheaper to build and maintain boulevard, I will never know).

[Bytor]

Yeah, anyone buying a home needs to avoid corner properties. Not only do you have a sidewalk that is 3 to 5 time the size of other properties, if you have a CMB and bus stop, it's even worse. Personally at a minimum, the city/grt/canada post should be responsible for clearing bus stops and CMB's as well as corn windrows that the plow leaves behind.

What are you talking about? Home owners are not required to clear GRT bus stops. GRT has a contract for snow removal at stops.

[JoeKW]

I really hope they add an affordable flight to Montreal

[Chris]

I really hope they add an affordable flight to Montreal

GRT or Flair? haha. I know what you meant but I couldn't help myself.

[plam]

Ugh, the infrastructure on Erb St W in winter is basically unusable due to snow.