ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[danbrotherston]

Markster, thanks for the clear description about how the "bike lane" (or whatever it is) gets squished. Based on that, I surmise that it's probably not a very good place to ride, but I guess everyone will figure that out for him or herself after riding it for the first time. That's really the case with real bike lanes around, anyway, when someone realizes what the specific conditions are like.

Danbrotherston, I probably should have phrased my question differently. What are "edge lines" exactly? Who is supposed to be using the space outside of them? Cyclists? Someone else? Nobody?

Apparently three people commented while I was editing my comment.  Woops lol.

Yes, Markster's description is helpful, although regional staff have said that they would not paint an edge line under such circumstances....for this reason specifically....but it seems that message hasn't been dispersed so widely yet.

As to the question, it has many answers ranging from nobody to everybody.....*sigh*....it's extra pavement to make the road wider, but then we realized that wider is actually bad in some ways (like safety) so we put paint down to make it appear narrower to try and slow down drivers.

Frankly, if people want to scream about government waste, how about paving a 5 meter wide lane than trying to make it appear narrower by putting down paint.

In practice the cities have concerns about fitting a plow down a 3.5 meter wide lane with curbs on both sides, so minimum widths are set.  I mean, I'd argue we should keep narrower, cheaper, less wasteful, less dangerous lanes and simply buy smaller plows, but apparently not.  C'est la vie.

[jamincan]

In fairness, Lackner demonstrates that even marked bike lanes can randomly disappear and reappear. I agree that safety-wise, this situation isn't really ideal, but it is nice to have a bit of a buffer on the shoulder still, even if it isn't technically a lane.

[timc]

I laugh every time I ride on Lackner. I assume it's a work in progress.

[tomh009]

Actually in an ideal world every major arterial road would have a segregated cycle path, and that "ideal world" is the Netherlands.

Most, but certainly not all roads.  Much of central Amsterdam has no room for segregated bike lanes, for example.  Here is a sample:
https://goo.gl/maps/ZcDtZWSEKgS2

[danbrotherston]

Actually in an ideal world every major arterial road would have a segregated cycle path, and that "ideal world" is the Netherlands.

Most, but certainly not all roads.  Much of central Amsterdam has no room for segregated bike lanes, for example.  Here is a sample:
https://goo.gl/maps/ZcDtZWSEKgS2

I did say "major arterial road"....

And also, as some of our city councillors love to point out, we aren't Amsterdam, in our city, there are few roads which don't have room for appropriate cycling infrastructure.

But even roads which have no room are designed differently from here.

[JoeKW]

So, which stations will have on demand heating?

[Canard]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hi Iain, Conestoga, Northfield, GRH, Block Line and Fairway stops will have on demand heating</p>&mdash; ION (@rideIONrt) <a href="https://twitter.com/rideIONrt/status/768442516517552128">August 24, 2016</a></blockquote>

[JoeKW]

Thanks, not a bad list.

[ijmorlan]

Lazy update, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some of the stations for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/wrLRT?src=hash">#wrLRT</a> will have on-demand heating in the stations. <a href="https://t.co/Wolu81CNRP">pic.twitter.com/Wolu81CNRP</a></p>&mdash; iain (@Canardiain) <a href="https://twitter.com/Canardiain/status/874008828248981505">June 11, 2017</a></blockquote>

...and more importantly:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Surprise! Looks like we're getting bike lanes on King after all!! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BikeWR?src=hash">#BikeWR</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/wrLRT?src=hash">#wrLRT</a> Cc: <a href="https://twitter.com/WRConnected">@WRConnected</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/TriTAG">@TriTAG</a> <a href="https://t.co/91onmGzoVV">pic.twitter.com/91onmGzoVV</a></p>&mdash; iain (@Canardiain) <a href="https://twitter.com/Canardiain/status/874017620063858688">June 11, 2017</a></blockquote>

We got bike lanes after all!!  They're on both sides of King on the brand-new paved section.  I expect to see 'em all the way up along King as that final layer goes down and the markings go on!

I visited yesterday, because I was curious. I can say with good confidence that there are no bike lanes of any description from the Waterloo Spur down to Allen St. From there, there is a space that could be used as a bike lane but has no indication of officially being one, until almost Union. Northbound, there is a similar space from Union north to almost John St., where it suddenly disappears and does not re-appear. Unfortunate, because there is ample space almost everywhere (the Allen Station is the only place where there is a real shortage of space), they just didn’t think about bikes when designing the LRT.

Which is weird. They are holding public meetings about installing sidewalk on one block of one side of Westmount. Why weren’t public meetings held to validate the detailed street design associated with the LRT?

[Markster]

I visited yesterday, because I was curious.

Northbound, there is a similar space from Union north to almost John St., where it suddenly disappears and does not re-appear. Unfortunate, because there is ample space almost everywhere (the Allen Station is the only place where there is a real shortage of space), they just didn’t think about bikes when designing the LRT.

There has been extensive discussion on facebook about this:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/81680629...492009051/

Reporter Luisa D'Amato talked to Tom Galloway about this today:

I talked to Coun. Tom Galloway about this today. He said, as many of you already know, that they are not bike lanes, but paved shoulders. In part they are there to direct drivers, and in winter, they will be where the snowplow leaves the snow. Cyclists are welcome to use King St., he said,, but the lack of infrastructure indicates the planning model that encourages cyclists to stay off busy regional roads like King St. I didn't know that -- I thought bike lanes were supposed to be built whenever a road was rebuilt. Coming away from this I thought a) there should be a sign warning it is not a bike lane; b) As a pedestrian, PLEASE don't use the sidewalks unless you are willing to get off and walk when passing a pedestrian. It is very scary when a bike swoops by and misses you by half an inch. And it is also illegal to be on the sidewalk except for kids' bikes. Solving your own problem by endangering other people is not great public relations for the group.

Which is about as much as I expected. "It wasn't designed for bikes, so... oh well!"
As for the sidewalk cycling, I will continue to make judgements based on my safety. The new sidewalks in this section are thankfully much wider, reducing conflict.

[KevinL]

If these 'shoulders' are not intended for traffic of any kind, they should be marked as such; diagonal stripes are, I think, the standard method.

[danbrotherston]

I talked to Coun. Tom Galloway about this today. He said, as many of you already know, that they are not bike lanes, but paved shoulders. In part they are there to direct drivers, and in winter, they will be where the snowplow leaves the snow. Cyclists are welcome to use King St., he said,, but the lack of infrastructure indicates the planning model that encourages cyclists to stay off busy regional roads like King St. I didn't know that -- I thought bike lanes were supposed to be built whenever a road was rebuilt. Coming away from this I thought a) there should be a sign warning it is not a bike lane; b) As a pedestrian, PLEASE don't use the sidewalks unless you are willing to get off and walk when passing a pedestrian. It is very scary when a bike swoops by and misses you by half an inch. And it is also illegal to be on the sidewalk except for kids' bikes. Solving your own problem by endangering other people is not great public relations for the group.

Which is about as much as I expected.  "It wasn't designed for bikes, so... oh well!"
As for the sidewalk cycling, I will continue to make judgements based on my safety.  The new sidewalks in this section are thankfully much wider, reducing conflict.

This answer from Galloway really bugs me.  I'm willing to accept a policy whereby cyclists are encouraged to use other routes to destinations and avoid busy through roads.  But King is not a through road.  I want to go places on King St.  How can I do that?  Am I as a cyclist simply not allowed to safely visit those businesses?  If I was a business owner on that road I would be livid about such an answer.

[ijmorlan]

Which is about as much as I expected.  "It wasn't designed for bikes, so... oh well!"
As for the sidewalk cycling, I will continue to make judgements based on my safety.  The new sidewalks in this section are thankfully much wider, reducing conflict.

This answer from Galloway really bugs me.  I'm willing to accept a policy whereby cyclists are encouraged to use other routes to destinations and avoid busy through roads.  But King is not a through road.  I want to go places on King St.  How can I do that?  Am I as a cyclist simply not allowed to safely visit those businesses?  If I was a business owner on that road I would be livid about such an answer.

Any road with no bike lanes should have a speed limit of maybe 35km/h or whatever a good speed limit for bicycles is, strictly enforced. If there is a need for motor traffic to go faster, then it needs to be segregated from bicycle traffic so that it can actually do so.

It’s weird. I think it’s fair to say that cyclists and pedestrians are getting more than lip service overall, but the same old double standard still exists, where it’s not taken as a given that they need to be accommodated by road design.

[Pheidippides]

Those new shoulders remind of the faux-bike lanes on Queen St S. I was glad that they had finally faded enough not to be noticed and then they repainted them in the last week or so!

Hopefully they can remove the lines or at least "hatch" out the space so it is clear no vehicle, motorized or otherwise should be in the space. It seems like poor planning. With that space and the buffer space between the curb and sidewalk and actual segregated path could have been built with room to spare.



Does anyone know why the hydro lines on Caroline were not buried as was planned (page 38) and approved? Not only did the lines not get buried, but the poles are in the middle of the sidewalk when there was space in the "buffer" between the curb and sidewalk or on the outside of the sidewalk.

"the City will enter an agreement with Waterloo North Hydro to install the electrical works to energize the buried system and remove the existing overhead system and poles. The City also intends to issue an RFP to retain a consultant to design the decorative street lighting system on Caroline from Allen to Erb Street."

"this report the work must be carried out in conjunction with the LRT construction."

   
   

[razzie13]

After consulting the LED streetlight conversion map, the fixtures on these poles are due to be swapped for LEDs on the existing poles, which shouldn't be the case if they're due to be yanked out, so who knows what the plans are now.