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Honestly, if ac3r sneers at people wearing a mask, I am not in the slightest surprised. But they've lived in my head rent free too long.
But, for the record, because it's important to confront missinformation, the following is 100% factual, and not even slightly an opinion.
1. COVID is a serious disease, far FAR more so than the cold, and significantly worse than the flu. This is evidence by data, like, how many people are hospitalized and killed by it, and this is especially true for vulnerable people like elderly loved ones or immunocompromised folks.
2. COVID is more common than the flu. Most people get the flu every couple of years, COVID on the other hand, is more of a 1-10 times a year thing for a lot of people.
3. COVID causes long term disability in ways which the flu does not. If we expect to keep reinfecting the entire population, an increasing percentage of the population will be disabled by it.
4. Boosters, while effective do not last forever, and only a small fraction of the population have gotten them. And even when effective do not entirely stop you from transmitting the virus.
5. Masks ARE effective at preventing infection, and not just COVID but also cold and flu.
Here is the opinion part:
Wearing a mask is a very low bar to avoid getting a cold or the flu to say nothing of avoiding COVID. I often got sick while flying, which really makes a trip much less fun. Since flying with a mask, I've not gotten sick once. Even if COVID was eliminated, I'd still wear a mask while travelling in a crowded metal tube for an extended period of time.
If a person finds it "goofy" for me not to want to kill my parents when I visit them, well, that reflects entirely on their values, not mine, and that's not even to mention what risk factors *I* personally have.
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(12-31-2023, 10:03 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: That being said, I'm not sure I'll ever ride a train or airplane without a mask again. So far we've avoided COVID (or anything for that matter) on two international trips with many transit legs.
Most modern airplanes have HEPA filters and good ventilation, which provides a big reduction in viral transmission. The biggest risks on the plane are the people sitting directly around you.
I would hope that VIA's new trains would have HEPA-filtered air circulation, too, but I really don't know.
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(01-02-2024, 02:24 PM)tomh009 Wrote: (12-31-2023, 10:03 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: That being said, I'm not sure I'll ever ride a train or airplane without a mask again. So far we've avoided COVID (or anything for that matter) on two international trips with many transit legs.
Most modern airplanes have HEPA filters and good ventilation, which provides a big reduction in viral transmission. The biggest risks on the plane are the people sitting directly around you.
I would hope that VIA's new trains would have HEPA-filtered air circulation, too, but I really don't know.
True, ventilation on planes is reasonably good. I do think a lot of the risk also comes from boarding and deplaning and various lines and crowded areas of the airport.
But unless you know all the folks sitting around you, I think there's still reason to wear them on the plane.
Like I said, getting some respiratory infection while travelling is fairly common, COVID is not different in that respect.
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(01-02-2024, 05:37 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: But unless you know all the folks sitting around you, I think there's still reason to wear them on the plane.
Like I said, getting some respiratory infection while travelling is fairly common, COVID is not different in that respect.
No argument there. But using HEPA filters on a modern train (like the new VIA ones) would significantly reduce risk for everyone. Especially since trains usually don't suffer from the same level of congestion as planes and airports.
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(01-02-2024, 10:05 PM)tomh009 Wrote: (01-02-2024, 05:37 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: But unless you know all the folks sitting around you, I think there's still reason to wear them on the plane.
Like I said, getting some respiratory infection while travelling is fairly common, COVID is not different in that respect.
No argument there. But using HEPA filters on a modern train (like the new VIA ones) would significantly reduce risk for everyone. Especially since trains usually don't suffer from the same level of congestion as planes and airports.
Oh, I completely agree. I think broadly we should be improving ventilation, although FWIW, I think HEPA is mostly important for recirculating air. If all the air is fresh air introduced from outside, that's mostly not a big deal (on an airplane, this is obviously less possible, due to outside conditions and the need to keep the cabin pressurized). Of course, this would be even more true if our outdoor air wasn't quite as polluted, which we *could* achieve, but don't seem to place a high priority on, except when we do, which is usually just as a lie to try and promote cars (you know, when they opposed the UPX because it was diesel, or when they try to justify widening roads, etc.).
The nice thing about straight ventilation vs. using HEPA filters is that the maintenance is much less critical to keeping the system working. If you aren't relying on expensive and frequently replaced filters, there's no opportunity for someone to cut the budget line and pull the filters...or to put it another way, passive systems are best.
Although re-circulation is also best for energy efficiency.
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VIA trains blend recirculated and fresh air, passed through MERV 13 filters, based on what I've seen on-line.
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(01-03-2024, 09:31 AM)panamaniac Wrote: VIA trains blend recirculated and fresh air, passed through MERV 13 filters, based on what I've seen on-line.
Interesting. MERV 13 is not nothing, but the bigger question I have is what is wrong with the system if CO2 is still going really high (I haven't personally measured this mind you). If it was blending significant fresh air, the CO2 would stay reasonably low. My guess is that the amount of fresh air is a configurable parameter, possibly even depending on outdoor conditions.
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MERV 13 is decent, but still well below the level of HEPA (which is MERV 17 or better).
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01-03-2024, 07:09 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2024, 07:10 PM by panamaniac.)
(01-03-2024, 11:20 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: (01-03-2024, 09:31 AM)panamaniac Wrote: VIA trains blend recirculated and fresh air, passed through MERV 13 filters, based on what I've seen on-line.
Interesting. MERV 13 is not nothing, but the bigger question I have is what is wrong with the system if CO2 is still going really high (I haven't personally measured this mind you). If it was blending significant fresh air, the CO2 would stay reasonably low. My guess is that the amount of fresh air is a configurable parameter, possibly even depending on outdoor conditions.
According to VIA (again based on what I've seen on-line) CO2 levels on its trains do not exceed permitted levels.
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(01-03-2024, 07:09 PM)panamaniac Wrote: (01-03-2024, 11:20 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: Interesting. MERV 13 is not nothing, but the bigger question I have is what is wrong with the system if CO2 is still going really high (I haven't personally measured this mind you). If it was blending significant fresh air, the CO2 would stay reasonably low. My guess is that the amount of fresh air is a configurable parameter, possibly even depending on outdoor conditions.
According to VIA (again based on what I've seen on-line) CO2 levels on its trains do not exceed permitted levels.
Trains are also intended to arrive on time. I would trust the people who have actually measured the levels more than Via in this case.
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(01-03-2024, 07:41 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: (01-03-2024, 07:09 PM)panamaniac Wrote: According to VIA (again based on what I've seen on-line) CO2 levels on its trains do not exceed permitted levels.
Trains are also intended to arrive on time. I would trust the people who have actually measured the levels more than Via in this case.
I have definitely measured CO2 levels on trains with a co2.click and found them to be high. From memory it was in the 2000 range, but it's been a while.
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I wonder if the new Siemens coaches perform better in that regard.
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VIA Rail routes in jeopardy due to outdated train cars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdTd_m0UeeE
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The Global report suggested that 2035 would be the end point for the current long haul fleet. Based on the experience for Amtrak (who would need to follow most of the same railroad restrictions that VIA does), how long would it take to order and commission a new fleet of 200 long-haul cars? Is 9 years enough time?
Their most recent fleet members, the Panarama Dome cars, were acquired from Colorado Railcar (now US Railcar) in 2002.
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Via rapid train on track to launch by mid-2030s, CEO confirms — could cut Montreal travel time in half with speeds of up to 200 km/h
The CEO of the Via Rail subsidiary spearheading plans for a rapid passenger train linking Toronto to Montreal through to Quebec City, says he is learning from rail projects like Metrolinx's Eglinton Crosstown LRT.
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