Road design, transportation and walkability

[jeffster]

Yet, despite everything that the Netherlands did, and despite higher tax rates for cars (when you purchase, when you buy gas), they still have more than 1 car per household.

They also use them les soften, too, at an average of 13,000km yearly compared 20k in Canada. That's because many of those car owners are taking public transit or cycling or walking for a lot of things.

I have no issue with governments spending money on transit and cycling. I think they should. But they also have to take care of roads as well, and this sometimes means building or widening certain roads because it’s needed.

Here's something ask - why do transit and cycling infrastructure projects need business cases but roads do not? Even though it is well known and document that added transit service creates big jumps in transit usage, it still has to be justified but road widenings never are?

Something you keep refusing to address though, are these two things: transit cannot be used by the majority of people.

That is just false. Transit can be used by anybody who has a bus stop within a 5 minute walk of the start and end points. Locally, that covers 85% of all residences in Kitchener, Waterloo, and Cambridge.

Cycling is limited in Canada to about 7 or 8 months.

False. I see people cycling all winter long. Especially the last 10 years because of the constant warm spells thanks to global warming.

No acknowledgment of transit disruptions either (either the odd strike or pestilence).

They happen less often than accidents on the 401. BTW, can I use covid-19 to say that recent 401 widening from Kitchener to Cambridge was obviously not needed?

You lose points when you say things like “start tolling cars” and “make transit free” as if somehow punishing people by stealing their time, those that can’t afford to live in some sort of transit corridor, those with elderly families, or those with health issues, is an answer, because it is not. And no country has done that.

That's not a reason to no start tolling, it's a reason add better transit service along such corridors, like our iXpress network has been doing. None of those other things you mention are barriers to transit, either. There's no reason why elderly people can't use out modern, low-floor busses. I see them doing so all the time on GRT.

BTW, your anecdote about helping an elderly relative to a medical appointment via transit? I've had enough visits to New York and used the busses and metro there for a week at a time to know that I could accomplish what you describe in under and hour even if I lived in Brooklyn and worked in Manhattan. I'm also fairly certain given my experiences using transit in Atlanta, Chicago, Washington D.C. and Dublin that I could do the same in those places. How often have you use transit systems elsewhere? In those places it very easily replaces private transportation as an option.

Dan is quite right to say that you appear to assume that just because GRT isn't the best that nowhere has good transit.

Stop hating the car, and stop hating car drivers. We got to where we are, and indeed, and developed nation has, by a combination of great transportation infrastructure, including private vehicles.

Then please tell the car drivers to stop hating transit. There's far more of them, and as a greater percentage of all car drivers, too, that want no increases in public transit service or even to get rid of it entirely, than whatever anti-car type you seem to think Dan is.

You brought up that in The Netherlands that people drive an average of 13,000 km - per year. Canada is 20,000 km. Go take a look at a map, and tell me how that 13,000 figure is great for a country that is super tiny compared to Canada - and a fraction of the size of southern Ontario. The small country size is a benefit to them. Yet, even then, they still do a lot of driving. Actually, considering the advantages the Holland has over Canada, I am surprised they do as much driving as they do. Shocked actually. I thought for sure the numbers would be closer to 5,000K per year. Damn, that’s more driving that what I do, and I have friends and family all over Ontario.

But obviously if they still need to drive as much as they do, their system isn’t great for as many of the people as some think.

As for how they decide to make decisions regarding transportation — in my area, the money has been spent widening the road (in one case) to add bike lanes, and in the other case, removing driving lanes to add bike lanes. No complaints from me. For transit, they did a business study when they started to build the Ion, and a decision was made to remove bus services in my area, and the closest spot was reduced from 7 days to 6, and removed early services and late services.

You mention that 85% of people are within 5 minutes walk of a bus stop. What percent of those 85% are able-bodied enough to do so? Not just anybody can do a 5 minute walk. Factor in summer construction, factor in reduced ‘summer’ services, that 5 minute walks is now 10 minutes or 20 minutes. If you live on a mainline, and have quick access to the Ion, sure, those people can easily use it.

Problem here is: No one is bringing up examples where transit is used by everyone. You bring up that you see people cycling year round, fine. How many people can do it? What numbers do we have to support that winter cycling is a good option for everyone? Global warming or not, we still have cold winters. We still have snow. We still have cold. For this past winter, we had 9 days out of 91 where the temperatures stayed a freezing or higher. You and Dan might be a-okay with a 30 minute bike ride to work in the winter. I am not. And I don’t know of any that actually does this.

As for the ‘anecdote’, how the hell do you compare KWC to New York City? 5 minutes to get to Manhattan to Brooklyn using transit. Done it. Getting from one side of Brooklyn to the other side of Manhattan? Different story. But since you said you could leave work, pick up an elderly, take them to a doctors appointment, then back home in under an hour, I have to call BS on that unless each is 1 or 2 subway stop from each other, and work, elderly, doctors office on same line. If that’s the case, it’s a unique situation and certainly wouldn’t apply to most people.

And whenever I go to Toronto, I usually use their transit, if I am going DT Toronto. Park at the 407ETR and take the 45 minute ride to Union station and a 25 minute walk to wherever, unless going to BMO Field, then take the 25 minute LRT ride. It is quicker by car most times, but I rather not deal with the frustration for the occasional time I got to DT Toronto.

BTW: I haven’t seen any car drivers moan and complain about bike lanes and transit. I don’t doubt they exist. But I would argue there are more car haters than transit/bike haters.

My reason for not using transit is because, 1) when I was on normal shift work, we had no bus services for all time (starting work at 6 am or earlier of OT, or finishing work at 12 or later if OT, not to mention weekend work) so transit is useless for 9 days out fo 20. 2) Even when transit is available, my 8 minute commute increases to over an hour to get to work on time, and an extra 45 minutes back home. No thanks. I have a disabled daughter and elderly mother to take care of, I don’t have the almost extra 10 hours a week to spare commuting just to work, nor the finances to take time off of work to do appointments.

Cycling is just not an option for me, especially during cool weather (under 5ºC ) due to my asthma. Winter isn’t an option, but I am happy for anyone that can do it.

You guys keep bring up tolling — how is this helpful? The corridors are expensive to live on. Sorry — they just are. Transit is next to nothing — make it free, but you don’t need to toll cars to do so. It’s a poor business decisions that would hurt the city, not help.