Road design, safety and Vision Zero

[dtkvictim]

Thanks for pointing this out. I had been unsure, but I agree the presence of a stop line indicates left-turning traffic is supposed to stop for the red. That being said, it still doesn’t make sense for the pedestrian crossing light to control left turns — it’s not a fully signalized intersection, just one with a pedestrian crossing. So vehicles turning left can do so just as safely on a red as on a green; actually more safely because southbound vehicles are stopped.

Followup question: is right turn on red allowed for southbound vehicles, given there is no signed prohibition? If the pedestrian crossing was north of the intersection (I won’t give a distance, but I mean far enough that it definitely doesn’t control the intersection), then it would be clear that going through the red to reach the right turn would be a violation; but on the other hand it would be equally clear that the left turns we’ve been discussing would be uncontrolled. On the other hand, the whole purpose of the crossing is to stop vehicles crossing the crossover, so it’s weird for right turns on red to be allowed.

(yes, I’m aware of the idea that rights turns on red should never be allowed, and I think it’s a reasonable idea, but I’m talking about the current situation where some such turns are definitely allowed)

Overall, I don’t like these pedestrian signal lights at intersections — either fully signalize the intersection, or have a crosswalk with a button to activate warning lights (an option which has been available for decades, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding).

Yeah, that's in interesting way to look at it. Does the light control a pedestrian crossing, in which case it seems like left turns to Seagram should be allowed, or does it control the intersection, in which case it seems like right on red should (according to the status quo) be allowed unless since it's not signed.

And why is this crossing signalized, while a block away at Central St a flashing beacon PXO was used? And speaking of the Central St PXO, it also has a strange design... Northbound Albert traffic is expected to yield before the intersection which is very far back. In my experience there is usually time to stop safely even after passing the yield marks and pedestrians will (reasonably I think) expect you to stop and step out into the street.

Not to mention more than once I've had drivers from Central seem to think it's an all-way stop (probably because they see the pedestrian crossing) and try to pull out onto Albert into me.

Given the geometry of the two intersections, feel like a PXO would've been better at Seagram and a fully signalized intersection would've been better at Central St.