ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[taylortbb]

When the province scaled back their financial commitment from 2/3 to a touch over 1/3, the region really trimmed every small expense they could. That was the era the project came extremely close to getting cancelled.

Just to be clear, the province did not scale back their commitment.  Their commitment was for a fixed amount of money.  The cost of the project grew over time so eventually a larger percentage commitment became a smaller percentage commitment.

Eh, really depends how you parse the words of what was announced. Yes, the original 2/3 promise from the province was for a much cheaper version of the project. But a local MPP definitely put out a press release saying "2/3 of the rapid transit project cost" .

When the LRT was finally fully costed, and the number was much higher than originally suggested, the federal government kept to 1/3 and adjusted up their commitment to the new total. The province however didn't stick to 2/3, and although $300M was more money, it certainly felt a little "promise broken".

Everyone, including the province, knows preliminary costs are just that, and that the final total will be higher. Putting out a press release saying 2/3 of the RT project, when you know it'll go higher, certainly creates an expectation of being in for 2/3 of the final price.

The provincial government was also throwing around 2/3 funding promises for other cities at the time. The Liberals knew they came up short in KW, and that was a huge part of why they committed $50M to the transit hub project. Also a part of why they picked up 50% of the overrun, through Metrolinx culpability for late vehicles was a factor too.

[KevinL]

Does anyone know why they've only installed heaters at some - or just one - station? 

Cost savings. They're only at GRH, R&T, and the malls IIRC. Every station has the rough-in for them, but only those 4 got actual heaters.

Just for completeness - Northfield has them too.

[Bytor]

Just to be clear, the province did not scale back their commitment.  Their commitment was for a fixed amount of money.  The cost of the project grew over time so eventually a larger percentage commitment became a smaller percentage commitment.

Eh, really depends how you parse the words of what was announced. Yes, the original 2/3 promise from the province was for a much cheaper version of the project. But a local MPP definitely put out a press release saying "2/3 of the rapid transit project cost" .

When the LRT was finally fully costed, and the number was much higher than originally suggested, the federal government kept to 1/3 and adjusted up their commitment to the new total. The province however didn't stick to 2/3, and although $300M was more money, it certainly felt a little "promise broken".

Everyone, including the province, knows preliminary costs are just that, and that the final total will be higher. Putting out a press release saying 2/3 of the RT project, when you know it'll go higher, certainly creates an expectation of being in for 2/3 of the final price.

The provincial government was also throwing around 2/3 funding promises for other cities at the time. The Liberals knew they came up short in KW, and that was a huge part of why they committed $50M to the transit hub project. Also a part of why they picked up 50% of the overrun, through Metrolinx culpability for late vehicles was a factor too.

Even in 2007 $300M wasn't two-thirds of the cost of a potential LRT system. That would have made a total system only $450M (~$520M by 2014 with inflation), certainly not for an LRT. Doubly not in 2007 before the final scope and mode had been decided and and accurate assessment of cost couldn't have been made.

Even back then the the cost of what we have now would have been $700+M, and the abbreviated proposal to just Ottawa St  would still have been ~$600M making two-thirds significantly more than $300M.

[nms]

Meanwhile in Britain: West Midlands (aka Birmingham and Wolverhampton) tram services suspended due to cracks

West Midlands Metro (WMM) said permanent repairs were needed and it would take its fleet of 21 trams out of service. It said: “The safety of our customers and colleagues is our priority and this will never be compromised.”

WMM said the decision to suspend services had not been taken lightly and apologised for any inconvenience. It has not given a date for when services will resume but work to repair the trams is expected to take at least four weeks.

Have all of the Ion units had their warranty work finished?

[jeffster]

Meanwhile in Britain: West Midlands (aka Birmingham and Wolverhampton) tram services suspended due to cracks

West Midlands Metro (WMM) said permanent repairs were needed and it would take its fleet of 21 trams out of service. It said: “The safety of our customers and colleagues is our priority and this will never be compromised.”

WMM said the decision to suspend services had not been taken lightly and apologised for any inconvenience. It has not given a date for when services will resume but work to repair the trams is expected to take at least four weeks.

Have all of the Ion units had their warranty work finished?

Sydney Australia as well: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/mi...e-22168033

As for our work, it's being done bit by bit. Hopefully our trains don't deteriorate like the ones in the UK and Australia. Though different manufacturers, it seems to be similar problems. Though in our case it's a welding defect, in the UK and Australia, it seems to be substandard material being used.

Stuff like this doesn't give people a lot of faith in this type of mass transportation. Seems everyone LRT's are having serious issues.

[ac3r]

Maybe new systems. Germany and Austria have had light rail for the longest time and haven't had issues like these.

[kps]

Maybe new systems. Germany and Austria have had light rail for the longest time and haven't had issues like these.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_Co...nstruction

[ac3r]

Yet another ION crash: https://kitchener.citynews.ca/police-bea...oo-4766827

[ac3r]

Seems like the freezing rain tonight has totally caused the ION to grind to a halt in many locations. Multiple trains were struggling to get up minor terrain elevations causing long delays and two trains managed to lose all power which really threw things off.

[jamincan]

Don't they have sanders to address that?

[KevinT]

Don't they have sanders to address that?

How effective they are depends how quickly the ice builds up, as well as the train headways. They also have an ice-cutter pantograph or two that they can fit to the trains, but with 90 minutes for a round trip it's not very effective if the ice builds up fast.  :-(

[plam]

So I've been taking LRT rides much more than I did in 2019, since I'm housesitting at Kaufman. Despite some peoples' complaints about trip times, KW really isn't that big. 12 minutes to UW, 24 minutes to Fairview. Sure, could be faster to Fairview, but is it going to matter for most people? Frequencies are more important I think.

[danbrotherston]

I think the real frustrating part about the speed is that the bus is faster to many destinations...I think that's part having a more direct route in a few cases, but also being able to travel at road speed, that is infuriatingly higher than the LRT limit in many places...I still just cannot believe that nonsense.

[ijmorlan]

So I've been taking LRT rides much more than I did in 2019, since I'm housesitting at Kaufman. Despite some peoples' complaints about trip times, KW really isn't that big. 12 minutes to UW, 24 minutes to Fairview. Sure, could be faster to Fairview, but is it going to matter for most people? Frequencies are more important I think.

We could increase frequency for zero cost by just driving faster. The same number of vehicles can provide more frequent service if they move at a higher speed. Safety paranoia has a cost.

[plam]

I think the real frustrating part about the speed is that the bus is faster to many destinations...I think that's part having a more direct route in a few cases, but also being able to travel at road speed, that is infuriatingly higher than the LRT limit in many places...I still just cannot believe that nonsense.

I haven't taken a GRT bus since sometime in 2019, so it's hard for me to compare. Certainly the Wellington buses are extraordinarily slow because they get stuck in traffic. But sure, there's something wrong if the 7 is faster than the 301 (I don't know if it is or not).

So I've been taking LRT rides much more than I did in 2019, since I'm housesitting at Kaufman. Despite some peoples' complaints about trip times, KW really isn't that big. 12 minutes to UW, 24 minutes to Fairview. Sure, could be faster to Fairview, but is it going to matter for most people? Frequencies are more important I think.

We could increase frequency for zero cost by just driving faster. The same number of vehicles can provide more frequent service if they move at a higher speed. Safety paranoia has a cost.

Sure, that's true.