ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[urbd]

Again, terrible terrible news. Yet another disappointment, plus it's such a low brow act to wait a couple weeks after elections to make the announcement when they knew perfectly well that there would be a delay. Agh. I'm actually pissed.

I've said it a few times now, but it's clear the launch date of December was a lie the last time they said it, and as a voter, I feel that I was mislead.  Frankly, its unacceptable.

Exactly, it's insulting to those of us that have believed in and supported this project for 10+ years. It's not that hard to be transparent, but I guess its tempting to start lying if it puts in jeopardy your political career.

[welltoldtales]

We're talking 2 year delay.

Sorry, what?  No... no we are not.

Anticipated completion was "late" 2017. 

http://www.metro-magazine.com/management...evelopment

If we end up in June of 2019 before we launch...

You are right I am being loose with a couple of months on either side. But the way I look at is we were quoted to get something that was to arrive in 2017 and we got it in 2019.

[robdrimmie]

Anyway, we're not going to see this start up in spring 2019, and we'll likely get a mid-winter start in 2020, and it will be shitty outside.

Every target thus far has been missed, so given prior performance (which is only so valid a tool for judgement) all evidence is on your side here, the delays will continue.

Given that the current delay from several perspectives seems to be related to when Bombardier received the "specialized equipment" component and the work required to integrate that into our system, and that process now appears to be well under way, I'm very curious why you think the delays will continue another full year?

I'm not challenging this assertion, I have no reason not to believe you. I'm just genuinely interested in the volume of work that you see. Why isn't another 6 months enough to finish up? Is there specific details or is it mostly your gut? (I place a lot of value on smart peoples' guts.)

[jeffster]

BTW: I'll ask one last time; either I missed the answer or it hasn't been answer. The corrosion issues that the TTC discovered because of the faulty design and workmanship by Bombardier, does the Ion have the same problem? Or do we not know the answer to that?

[Drake]

I find it difficult to believe this latest revelation was unknown prior to the election. Assuming there is not that level of incompetence at the Region, I ask how (ethically) it could be kept from the voters.

[tomh009]

(...and I should say I bet I am the only person thrilled by this news!!)

Why are you thrilled? Would you be even happier if it was 2020? 2021? 2022? Hell, why not 2080 when all of us are dead.

Canard really, really wants a launch in nice weather!

[tomh009]

That said, the region has a poor reputation when it comes to honesty, (…)

According to whom?

[jeffster]

I'm not challenging this assertion, I have no reason not to believe you. I'm just genuinely interested in the volume of work that you see. Why isn't another 6 months enough to finish up? Is there specific details or is it mostly your gut? (I place a lot of value on smart peoples' guts.)

It's my gut feeling. Many times I ignore it, when I shouldn't have. In this case, it's a moot point because I have zero power to change the outcome. And of course, we're dealing with reputations of the ROW and Bombardier, both who have been less than transparent, so I have zero reasons to believe that 'spring' means 'spring'. I would have preferred an answer of "we really don't know, but we're hoping for spring 2019, and by spring, we mean before Canada Day".

It's funny, I do work for the government (not regional) and we had some questions regarding something totally not related to any of this; the one time we were told that we'd have an answer 'sometime in the new year' and the answer came 3 years later. We had another question back in early 2017, and were given a similar response, though this time 'we'll have an answer early in the new year'. By early you would think it would mean, at the very least, the first 4 months of the year. However, after working here for 20 some years, "Early in the new year" means "Early in the new year, but which new year could be 1, 2, 5 or 10 years". And no, we haven't gotten an answer yet. I had a discussion with a councillor back in 2006 regarding something, as was given the answer 'sometime early next year' which turned out to be early 2018 -- 11 years later than what most would think.

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I have been asking many times about the corrosion issues with the trains w/o an answer, and I am guessing we don't know. So I have a feeling that, instead of 14 trains, we will need 20 trains: 12 trains in service, 2 on standby, and 6 being repaired at any given time, and this might delay the start by more time. I think Bombardier and the ROW have the answer, but are trying to figure out a way so the issue is not noticeable.

[tomh009]

As I’ve stated before, I’m happy because I want opening day to be in the spring, summer or fall. Not the winter. It’s like a wedding, I don’t want it to be shitty out. YMMV.

1. In my opinion, that's a very superficial reason as to why you want it to launch in the Spring. Just for nice photos? Lots of people rely on public transit to get to places, and currently many buses are over capacity. It is a transportation system to be used by real people every day. It's not the Disney Monorail.

It's his personal preference. We all have one, why is one person's preference more superficial than another's? I don't have the same preference of Iain, but accept that he can have his own opinions. And that I don't need to put those down.

Let's please be civil here, even if many of us are very unhappy about the delay.

[jeffster]

1. In my opinion, that's a very superficial reason as to why you want it to launch in the Spring. Just for nice photos? Lots of people rely on public transit to get to places, and currently many buses are over capacity. It is a transportation system to be used by real people every day. It's not the Disney Monorail.

It's his personal preference. We all have one, why is one person's preference more superficial than another's? I don't have the same preference of Iain, but accept that he can have his own opinions. And that I don't need to put those down.

Let's please be civil here, even if many of us are very unhappy about the delay.

My opinion is that it is selfish to be 'thrilled' about a delay that affects every person in the try-city area. Not only that, though, not guarantee that Iain will get what he wants.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I do believe this delay will kill phase 2 of the LRT, and residents of KW will be on the hook for extra charges because really, why should Cambridge pay anything extra other than the BRT. (though to be honest, with the savings of killing phase 2, KW residents won't be out any money paying for phase 2, so things will even out)

[timio]

The corrosion issues only impact frames made in Mexico. Ions were not made in Mexico and shouldn't have the same issue.

[trainspotter139]

The corrosion issues only impact frames made in Mexico.  Ions were not made in Mexico and shouldn't have the same issue.

They weren't corrosion issues either they were welding defects.

[KevinT]

I've said it a few times now, but it's clear the launch date of December was a lie the last time they said it, and as a voter, I feel that I was mislead.  Frankly, its unacceptable.

[jeffster]

The corrosion issues only impact frames made in Mexico.  Ions were not made in Mexico and shouldn't have the same issue.

They weren't corrosion issues either they were welding defects.

Yes, welding defects by Bombardier:

"There is also no word on whether serious welding defects discovered in Toronto Transit Commission streetcars built by Bombardier are also present in the region's LRT vehicles." (July 2018)

Does this affect us?

[jeffster]

Again, terrible terrible news. Yet another disappointment, plus it's such a low brow act to wait a couple weeks after elections to make the announcement when they knew perfectly well that there would be a delay. Agh. I'm actually pissed.

I've said it a few times now, but it's clear the launch date of December was a lie the last time they said it, and as a voter, I feel that I was mislead.  Frankly, its unacceptable.

Well, after watching the news today, and perhaps I am reading into it, but apparently the ROW was setting a deadline of December to put fire to the feet of Bombardier. So most likely both the ROW and Bombardier knew that December was a unrealistic target date; rather, it was one of hope.