Trails

[danbrotherston]

Looks like the IHT to hub trail is getting some interim solutions while some property issues are getting straightened out.

Sharrows will be installed on Waverly Road, and a widening of the sidewalk and installation of sharrows on Joseph Street to connect to Victoria Street. Trail will be 2.65m wide under the Park St bridge.

"Geoff Keyworth, stated that staff are looking at the possibility of creating a multi-use trail between Joseph Street and King Street on Victoria Street; but it would be an odd design. He further noted that staff are looking at how to handle Victoria Street as a whole. He stated that a good argument can be made to either widen Victoria Street to four lanes throughout or have a road diet and encourage active transportation facilities and an improved streetscape. The Committee discussed the challenges related to the contaminated Epton lands and agreed that the short multi-use trail on Victoria Street would provide a reasonable interim connection between King Street and Joseph Street."

Also, the original funding deadline of March 31, 2019 has been extended to March 31, 2020, and construction of the interim alignment will start in April 2019 and be completed by March 31, 2020.


I wonder if the extra time wouldn't allow for some of the pieces of the preferred direct route to be put in place instead. $1.5M is a lot for a trail route that isn't going serve many very well.

I too was surprised by the cost.

I'm also surprised by the need to widen Gage at the creek culvert.  There's parking on one side, I would have thought removing the parking would leave enough room...

I too am disappointed by of the compromises and the 'interim solutions' but it's especially frustrating that the delays given us the opportunity to use the time to expropriate the small piece of land at the end of Stewart St. and railway crossing required to make this a far better solution.

[jamincan]

Is the route through Waverley Park and up to Gage already set in stone? I don't really understand why they would spend all that money on that route when Cherry seems to be a quite comfortable street that would be perfect for sharrows (caveat - I've never actually ridden on Cherry, it could be awful in reality). I would think that even with a wide sidewalk "multi-use trail", Park would discourage users compared to the Cherry routing which is more direct, quieter, and has less interaction with major roads.

[danbrotherston]

I lived just off Cherry, and was at the meetings. It is not a nice road to cycle on. It has enough traffic, which moves reasonably fast, has a big hill (which both sucks to climb and provides blind overtakes). And crossing Park at Cherry is less than ideal.

It was also clear to the project team that people wanted a trail. This idea that a "quite ish" road with no traffic calming can be part of a trail didn't really mesh with what people think a trail is.

That being said I don't much like the chosen route either.

[clasher]

That's a weird spot on Gage where the culvert is anyway, why is there even parking allowed in front of that construction place? Seems like there is more than enough asphalt on the road to shift the lanes over a bit and put some bollards down to make a little protected lane to cross the culvert and then start the trail on the other side of the creek.

Also from page 15, this:
   

Sums up where the region seems to be going with infrastructure.

[timc]

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but I saw that a formalized trail is in construction between Phillip Street and the R&T ion station. It looks like it has already been tamped and just needs asphalt.

[Pheidippides]

The final completion of the central section of the IHT has been pushed to 31-Dec-2018. The north and south sections remain on track.

   

   

[tomh009]

What's still missing?

Am happy to see that both north and south sections will be finished next year.

[Pheidippides]

What's still missing?

Am happy to see that both north and south sections will be finished next year.

I was through that section last weekend and the parking lot area in Victoria Park was still unfinished, the new connection to Victoria Park over the tracks was not done, they are waiting on the benches still, the garden space near West was not done, and there were still no bollards at David (although I noticed new bollards last night at IHT and West so maybe those are installed now).

[Rainrider22]

What's still missing?

Am happy to see that both north and south sections will be finished next year.

I was through that section last weekend and the parking lot area in Victoria Park was still unfinished, the new connection to Victoria Park over the tracks was not done, they are waiting on the benches still, the garden space near West was not done, and there were still no bollards at David (although I noticed new bollards last night at IHT and West so maybe those are installed now).

How is it these contractors are allowed to continually miss the target dates.  Funny how they can get stuff done for private industry.

[KevinT]

How is it these contractors are allowed to continually miss the target dates.  Funny how they can get stuff done for private industry.

I disagree, how many new build condo projects do we read about that have been delayed months or years and folks are stuck with nowhere to live while waiting to close? My new build house was over two months late...

[danbrotherston]

I was through that section last weekend and the parking lot area in Victoria Park was still unfinished, the new connection to Victoria Park over the tracks was not done, they are waiting on the benches still, the garden space near West was not done, and there were still no bollards at David (although I noticed new bollards last night at IHT and West so maybe those are installed now).

How is it these contractors are allowed to continually miss the target dates.  Funny how they can get stuff done for private industry.

Why do people say this. I know the private sector well, I work in it, the suggestion that deadlines are met there is laughable.  The same is true for bureaucracy and waste, the private sector is just as bad. This belief that the public sector automatically makes things delayed and wasteful is so harmful.

As for the project, I don't think it's correct to say paving is complete, the parking lot and the connection to Vic Park are both unpaved.

I was also told the light fixture will be removed and replaced with the correct model, since the (private) contractor made an error and installed the wrong ones.  It will be corrected at no cost to the city.

[curiouschair]

How is it these contractors are allowed to continually miss the target dates.  Funny how they can get stuff done for private industry.

Why do people say this. I know the private sector well, I work in it, the suggestion that deadlines are met there is laughable.  The same is true for bureaucracy and waste, the private sector is just as bad. This belief that the public sector automatically makes things delayed and wasteful is so harmful.

[...]

soooo true!!!

[Rainrider22]

Why do people say this. I know the private sector well, I work in it, the suggestion that deadlines are met there is laughable.  The same is true for bureaucracy and waste, the private sector is just as bad. This belief that the public sector automatically makes things delayed and wasteful is so harmful.

[...]

soooo true!!!

You ask me why I say this ? Because my experience is dead lines are often met...  You ask me why, I tell you why ..

[robdrimmie]

In both private (especially as organizations get larger) and public sectors, the incentives drive behaviours towards low cost initial quotes that focus almost exclusively on the happy path. A real quote that takes into consideration the real roadblocks and speed bumps that will be encountered along the way (many of which are unknowable at the outset of a project) is often times not considered due to the cost. It is absolutely the expectation that projects will run over time and over budget.

By the time it's clear to all that a project will run over, there is considerable investment in it so everyone adopts a "the only way out is through" attitude. Then it gets released, everyone wipes their brow and claps each other on the back and says "well we really got through some shit together, didn't we team!" and does it again.

There is very little meaningful reward for finishing on time or budget, but there are strong rewards in starting projects with small budgets.

I'm not saying this is a good system, but it is the reality inside the majority of organizations.

[danbrotherston]

soooo true!!!

You ask me why I say this ? Because my experience is dead lines are often met...  You ask me why, I tell you why ..

What size is the enterprise you deal with?

Even the cities are a hundred million dollar a year enterprise, higher levels of government are some of the biggest organizations in the country. Scale is what breeds these problems, not public vs. private.  I have worked for several large private enterprises, and I routinely see similar problems.

This is why I take "small government" to mean, local government.