GO Transit

[tomh009]

570 News and CTV reporting that 2 way all day service is 7 years off.  Metrolinx will need to build a bypass for CN.

http://www.570news.com/2017/08/31/go-exp...ot-months/

Completion of the entire project is seven years away, according to the article.  It may be that we can get some additional service before that, it's not clear.

But one nice thing from the article is that it says the track will be electrified and we'll get electric trains rather than the current diesels.  I had not seen that committed before, so it's a piece of good news for me.

[Coke6pk]

I think it says the bypass will be 7 years out. Actually electrifying everything I don't believe is in that timeline....

CTV video had a Metrolinx spokesperson say that where we cross the CN lines is the problem, and we only have very limited times where we can... Not sure if we could get increased service in the interm (I really hope we do as well!)

Coke

[tomh009]

I think it says the bypass will be 7 years out.  Actually electrifying everything I don't believe is in that timeline....

Maybe.  The article is not precise, which is par for the course for most news media.  But it's how I read it:

Other key pieces of this project include, a new station at Breslau, upgrades to Kitchener GO and other stations, and additional track between Union Station and Mount Pleasant Go Station, 52 kilometres of track between Georgetown and Kitchener, upgraded signaling and communication system, electrification (of the track) and new electric train fleet.
Another major piece of that project is one specific part of the Kitchener corridor “The Kitchener corridor we own just about 79 per-cent of it, so we own from Georgetown to Kitchener, we own from Union Station to Bramalea but the section in between we don’t currently own, it’s CN’s and is currently one of their major freight lines,” Troughton said.
Troughton adds that as it stands right now, GO trains have to cross CN tracks and they only have permission to do that a couple times a day.

One of Metrolinx plans to take ownership of the 19km stretch that CN owns is to build a 30km bypass for freight trains.

It is estimated that the entire project should take about seven years.

[danbrotherston]

I think it says the bypass will be 7 years out.  Actually electrifying everything I don't believe is in that timeline....

Maybe.  The article is not precise, which is par for the course for most news media.  But it's how I read it:

Other key pieces of this project include, a new station at Breslau, upgrades to Kitchener GO and other stations, and additional track between Union Station and Mount Pleasant Go Station, 52 kilometres of track between Georgetown and Kitchener, upgraded signaling and communication system, electrification (of the track) and new electric train fleet.
Another major piece of that project is one specific part of the Kitchener corridor “The Kitchener corridor we own just about 79 per-cent of it, so we own from Georgetown to Kitchener, we own from Union Station to Bramalea but the section in between we don’t currently own, it’s CN’s and is currently one of their major freight lines,” Troughton said.
Troughton adds that as it stands right now, GO trains have to cross CN tracks and they only have permission to do that a couple times a day.

One of Metrolinx plans to take ownership of the 19km stretch that CN owns is to build a 30km bypass for freight trains.

It is estimated that the entire project should take about seven years.

I listened to the council meeting this morning.  They weren't clear on timelines exactly, Metrolinx "figured" the bypass would take 7 years including EA, and CN is supposedly working on preliminary work now.

Electrification is separate work, which will be completed in parallel.  Metrolinx said they cannot run electric trains while CN owns the tracks, so until the bypass is built, no electric trains can run past Brampton.  However, Metrolinx seemed to hope that CN would allow it to complete some preliminary work on electrification along the CN portion so that there might be very little work left to do once the freight bypass is open.

This seems like a long time to build a railway of only 30 kms, but I wonder how this compares with building a highway.  The highway to Guelph is a similar sized project, how long is it going to take from EA to completion?

[SammyOES2]

The highway is looking like its roughly 10 years of real work (including studies and stuff that has to be done).  But hard to pinpoint a real start date I think.  You could argue that its been 30-40 years from beginning to end.

By the time you do studies, expropriations, building, etc. 7 years is probably too optimistic.

[timio]

The Metrolinx update to the region said about 300 million to double track the corridor from Georgetown, 500 million to electrify Bramalea to Kitchener, and about 1.5 billion for the CN bypass, including a bunch of hydro tower relocations, gas main relocation, and various other requirements prior to laying 30k of track. (Gleaned from the Regional Council video from last night's meeting.) All of this takes about 7 years to complete.

[Coke6pk]

Will the tracks still run down the middle of the street in Guelph?

[timio]

ideally they'd grade separate the entire section through Guelph, but what actually happens remains to be seen.

I haven't looked at the initial EA for the Kitchener expansion recently. There may be more in there. They did have a draft alignment plan for double tracking the entire corridor.

[KevinL]

Will the tracks still run down the middle of the street in Guelph?

If you look closely, the rail corridor there actually has room for double tracks (and even has some remnants of old ones in spots). It's a question of removing the slow order given how close the roadways get; that likely won't come without removing the houses on one side of the street.

[ijmorlan]

Will the tracks still run down the middle of the street in Guelph?

If you look closely, the rail corridor there actually has room for double tracks (and even has some remnants of old ones in spots). It's a question of removing the slow order given how close the roadways get; that likely won't come without removing the houses on one side of the street.

How much difference does the slow order actually make? The area is pretty close to Guelph station, so speeds wouldn’t be really high under any circumstances. The situation only exists east of Glasgow St. and involves level crossings at Glasgow and Dublin. The total length of the area is under 200m so I can’t see a slow order making much difference to overall time. I’d say re-instate the second track, improve the crossing protection and fences, and leave it at that.

[Viewfromthe42]

Cyclists move faster than the train through that area, and it's a consequential distance that the train has to travel at what seems like 10-20kph.

[timio]

I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of the travel time between KW and Guelph is spent in that short stretch just west of Guelph station.

[ijmorlan]

I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of the travel time between KW and Guelph is spent in that short stretch just west of Guelph station.

No way. The part at Kent St. is no more than 200m long. At 10 km/h (which is really slow) that would take well under 2 minutes. I vaguely recall that the train goes slowly all the way through Guelph however (it’s been a while since I rode through there). It’s possible that the slow order adds significant time, but if so most of it has nothing to do with Kent St. So most of the slow order, in particular the more important part that is not right near the station, could be lifted with some right-of-way improvement that would not affect Kent St.

[Canard]

I'll echo that it certainly feels like 1/3 of the trip time is the slow crawl through Guelph. It's agonizing.

[dunkalunk]

In addition the the crawl down Kent Street, there is also a slow order at the Guelph Junction to the West.