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My main issue with MUTs is that you've just replaced the car/bike conflict with a bike/pedestrian conflict. It can work in the same way biking on the street works - low speed, low volume. It's a good choice for along arterials like this, but in busy areas they generally don't serve either pedestrians or cyclists well.
My main issue with the way we build MUTs in WR are that they don't seem to know how to deal with them at either signalized intersections or roundabouts. Its inconsistent and usually relies on a cyclist to dismount or break the law.
It also appears that the more recent roads where they are putting in MUTs no longer have painted bike lanes. The downside to this is that most "sport cyclists" are going to be travelling 30+ km/h and will not want to be on a shared path (nor should they for obvious safety reasons; in fact, many places are putting ~20 km/h speed limits on their MUTs). So these cyclists will be back in the general lanes, which isn't good for anyone.
I think the current practice of using MUTs is a good step towards proper separated infrastructure. All they need is a sidewalk next to the MUT and proper treatment at intersections, and the MUT can be a high quality, 3m unidirectional cycle path.
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Oh, and back to the discussion of Weber... I occasionally bike over this bridge, and I just take the lane and consciously try to keep my speed up. As a pretty experienced, confident cyclist, that southbound bike lane sandwiched between the concrete wall of the bridge and a general traffic lane is terrible - no way I would choose that over the MUT. In my opinion, having it there is worse than not, because some inexperienced cyclist is going to think its fine and then find themselves with 1.48m between a concrete wall and a passing transport truck/bus/whatever.
They should either narrow the lanes and put an MUT on both sides, or grow a backbone and go back to the original recommendation.
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07-28-2017, 11:22 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2017, 11:23 AM by danbrotherston.)
(07-28-2017, 11:13 AM)highlander Wrote: My main issue with MUTs is that you've just replaced the car/bike conflict with a bike/pedestrian conflict. It can work in the same way biking on the street works - low speed, low volume. It's a good choice for along arterials like this, but in busy areas they generally don't serve either pedestrians or cyclists well.
My main issue with the way we build MUTs in WR are that they don't seem to know how to deal with them at either signalized intersections or roundabouts. Its inconsistent and usually relies on a cyclist to dismount or break the law.
It also appears that the more recent roads where they are putting in MUTs no longer have painted bike lanes. The downside to this is that most "sport cyclists" are going to be travelling 30+ km/h and will not want to be on a shared path (nor should they for obvious safety reasons; in fact, many places are putting ~20 km/h speed limits on their MUTs). So these cyclists will be back in the general lanes, which isn't good for anyone.
I think the current practice of using MUTs is a good step towards proper separated infrastructure. All they need is a sidewalk next to the MUT and proper treatment at intersections, and the MUT can be a high quality, 3m unidirectional cycle path.
This is exactly on point, bears repeating. MUTs work in low traffic areas, but higher traffic areas (Iron Horse Trail) see a lot of conflicts (and a lot of resulting complaining).
Sport cyclists do not like them because they become a danger and are slowed down.
Intersections right now are a complete failure, on the border of entrapment frankly. If I ever got a ticket, I'd fight it in court.
And, generally designs are just poor with uneven surfaces (no need for curbs like we have on them).
Here's an example of a particularly egregious (and brand new) example on King:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4946633,-...312!8i6656
You'll note this is the MUT that the cyclist who was killed was not using. I wonder if intersections like this contributed to his choice to use the traffic lanes instead. Frankly, at this intersection, one would wonder if cyclists are even allowed to use this infrastructure.
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I noticed at the corner of Manitou and Wabinaki there appears to be "bike streetlights" wrapped in black. I haven't seen anything about these other than a post about that type of infrastructure maybe coming in the future to an Uptown Waterloo intersection.
Coke
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Construction continues along Lackner between Fairway & Zeller... all the MUT's and sidewalks appear completed, and there are two new relief islands as well.
One thing that struck me as odd, they have poured a cement island for the turn from s/b (w/b?) Fairway to e/b (n/b?) Lackner, and have footings for what appear to be traffic signals. The signals here have been on ropes for years, as I've always been on the understanding that there is a roundabout scheduled to be constructed here.
Maybe since there is a school, they are crossing signals only? Anyone know more?
Coke
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This past weekend, I was out cycling on Wellington/Shirley/Bingemans, and noticed that it looked like on the north side, there was an amply wide area leveled with a gravel base, separated from the road by the curb. I really hope that's going to be a MUT. That road is a fast one, and was not exactly the most pleasant to bike down in its current state.
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I hope that it will be an MUT as well, although I do expect there to be bike lanes once the road is done.
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So, heading Northbound on 85, there are 4 lanes at Ottawa. After that, it splits; two lanes "express" and two lanes "collector". The exit to Frederick and Victoria via Bruce is the first exit after the split. I guess last night they dedicated the right lane as exit only for that, and only the 3rd (leftmost collector) lane now goes straight through!
Person in front of me violently swerved across traffic; I imagine there are going to be a lot of close calls in the next day or two until everyone gets used to the new configuration.
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(07-31-2017, 12:07 PM)Markster Wrote: This past weekend, I was out cycling on Wellington/Shirley/Bingemans, and noticed that it looked like on the north side, there was an amply wide area leveled with a gravel base, separated from the road by the curb. I really hope that's going to be a MUT. That road is a fast one, and was not exactly the most pleasant to bike down in its current state.
According to the design and construction report, there are bike lanes proposed for both sides of this new road.
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(07-31-2017, 07:52 PM)Canard Wrote: So, heading Northbound on 85, there are 4 lanes at Ottawa. After that, it splits; two lanes "express" and two lanes "collector". The exit to Frederick and Victoria via Bruce is the first exit after the split. I guess last night they dedicated the right lane as exit only for that, and only the 3rd (leftmost collector) lane now goes straight through!
Person in front of me violently swerved across traffic; I imagine there are going to be a lot of close calls in the next day or two until everyone gets used to the new configuration.
According to the region road closures, From: Sun 30 Jul, 2017
To: Mon 31 Jul, 2017
Highway 85 Northbound Collectors
From: South of Frederick street
Kitchener
Closed
Collector full closure
Road Construction
MTO - Call 511
Only a 1 day closure?
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No, that says a full closure. Only the right lane is closed, and it was definitely a long-term reconfiguration. Lines painted and everything.
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Westheights Drive in Kitchener has been repaved. The same layout, still allowing street parkings, but at least the markings are clear now. I think the original pavement was something like 45 years old ...
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Pylons have been staged on Weber St between University and Erb.
Expect lane reductions soon. The closures page says it's resurfacing. That road is in pretty terrible shape, and basically unusable for bikes.
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Any idea if they're going to put the island in on the Laurel Trail at the same time? It seems a shame to resurface and then tear a chunk up again in a few months.
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The pavement on Weber is in terrible shape for basically the entirety of Waterloo. University to Northfield is not in much better shape compared to Erb to University.
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