GO Transit

[panamaniac]

I see that Patrick Brown has "committed" to two-way, all day service.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-...-1.4199763

[urbd]

I see the tweets about once a week about pedestrians getting hit and killed by GO trains, but sadly yesterday a pedestrian was hit and killed right in Kitchener, at Lancaster.

Wow. If it is at least once a week, isn't there anything that GO (or any authority for that matter) can do to prevent them? I mean if you know for sure that at least one person will die every week because of a service you are providing, I'm sure something could be done better to prevent it. This reminds me of the suicides at university campuses, and how university officials simply see them as "one more statistic", "on par with national averages", etc etc... well, if you know it's going to happen, why not be proactive and really try to prevent?

[danbrotherston]

I see the tweets about once a week about pedestrians getting hit and killed by GO trains, but sadly yesterday a pedestrian was hit and killed right in Kitchener, at Lancaster.

Wow. If it is at least once a week, isn't there anything that GO (or any authority for that matter) can do to prevent them? I mean if you know for sure that at least one person will die every week because of a service you are providing, I'm sure something could be done better to prevent it. This reminds me of the suicides at university campuses, and how university officials simply see them as "one more statistic", "on par with national averages", etc etc... well, if you know it's going to happen, why not be proactive and really try to prevent?

I'm assuming Canard said he heard "tweets" about it, not that it actually happened.  Fatalities on GO are much rarer than that, I only saw "suicide" numbers here:  https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/tor...e33347435/ . but that's probably the majority of injuries.  They're averaging one a month.

Still too many, but it's not "at least one per week".

I imagine most of the tweets are in the vein of "stupid person ran across tracks, gonna get hit", which is ironic, given that I suspect the majority of injuries and fatalities are not that situation (not that its not still dangerous and disruptive).

[ijmorlan]

I see the tweets about once a week about pedestrians getting hit and killed by GO trains, but sadly yesterday a pedestrian was hit and killed right in Kitchener, at Lancaster.

Wow. If it is at least once a week, isn't there anything that GO (or any authority for that matter) can do to prevent them? I mean if you know for sure that at least one person will die every week because of a service you are providing, I'm sure something could be done better to prevent it. This reminds me of the suicides at university campuses, and how university officials simply see them as "one more statistic", "on par with national averages", etc etc... well, if you know it's going to happen, why not be proactive and really try to prevent?

Depends on the situation. If the standard crossing design is confusing and doesn’t actually inform people to stay off the tracks, it may be able to be improved. But if people are committing suicide, there is little they can do. Remember, even saving lives must be done cost-effectively because we don’t live in an infinitely rich society. They could probably eliminate almost all suicides by having full grade separation everywhere, platform edge doors, and 10m high fences along every inch of the right of way, but this would not be a cost effective way of saving one life per week. A lot less money spent on other measures, say mental health resources, could save way more people.

Also don’t forget the non-money-cost downsides of any such measures taken. If we did install 10m high fences as I suggest, it’s hard to predict the outcome. Perhaps one more rider per week would be tipped over the edge from feeling depressed and almost suicidal to being actually suicidal by the depressing and uninteresting scenery outside the train windows. So it’s entirely possible that the huge investment wouldn’t actually save any lives at all.

I will say that, if it really was a suicide, I question the horn blowing by other trains. Unless there is a reason to believe that specific crossing is more likely now to have somebody on the tracks who would be inspired to remove themselves from the tracks by the horn, the horn does absolutely no good whatsoever other than to make whoever ordered the horns feel better (Note: there may be a reason, and if so then I withdraw my objection).

Ultimately, even something that is very safe may still kill the occasional person. This is hard to accept in a society where we have very little death through misadventure, but it is nevertheless an important truth about the nature of safety.

[mpd618]

Wow. If it is at least once a week, isn't there anything that GO (or any authority for that matter) can do to prevent them? I mean if you know for sure that at least one person will die every week because of a service you are providing, I'm sure something could be done better to prevent it. This reminds me of the suicides at university campuses, and how university officials simply see them as "one more statistic", "on par with national averages", etc etc... well, if you know it's going to happen, why not be proactive and really try to prevent?

What do you suggest?

Some of the fatalities are in urban areas where there are relatively few crossings of the track, and people cut across; this can be fixed with expensive new bridges or underpasses. Probably most are suicides, and with hundreds of kilometres of track it's probably not simple to reduce that.

[Canard]

I see people walking on the tracks all the time near my house - it's disgusting.

[chutten]

Let's give them someplace better to walk. The novelty of balancing on a rail wears off quickly when there's pavement alongside (evidence: anecdata of observing other users of the spurline trail).

[ijmorlan]

I see people walking on the tracks all the time near my house - it's disgusting.

Where? If you’re talking about the Spur Line, especially during the day, then it’s frankly a bit silly to claim that there is a safety problem with this.

If you’re talking about the mainline then I agree.

Once I took the kids to the old Cambridge station for photos. Before we got out of the car I told them very strictly that “this line is not like the one that goes past our house” and explained about speed and that we were all going to stay way back from the tracks. We were lucky enough to witness a quite long freight train moving at substantial speed with many different kinds of cars. Both fun to see for itself, and also a nice demonstration to the kids that their dad actually knows what he’s talking about, at least some of the time!

[Coke6pk]

Wow. If it is at least once a week, isn't there anything that GO (or any authority for that matter) can do to prevent them? I mean if you know for sure that at least one person will die every week because of a service you are providing, I'm sure something could be done better to prevent it. This reminds me of the suicides at university campuses, and how university officials simply see them as "one more statistic", "on par with national averages", etc etc... well, if you know it's going to happen, why not be proactive and really try to prevent?

What do you suggest?

Some of the fatalities are in urban areas where there are relatively few crossings of the track, and people cut across; this can be fixed with expensive new bridges or underpasses. Probably most are suicides, and with hundreds of kilometres of track it's probably not simple to reduce that.

If a person is suicidal, then they could just jump from the newly built overpass. 

I agree with the comment made by ljmorlan above that we need to focus on the mental health issues to solve the problem, instead of knee jerk reactions.

Coke

[SammyOES2]

I think there's research that preventing specific and easy suicide opportunities still reduces the number of suicides (so its not like everybody would just go find an alternative). So maybe in some places there's something that should be done.

But, I still agree that the better use of money is focused on root causes and support.

[ijmorlan]

I think there's research that preventing specific and easy suicide opportunities still reduces the number of suicides (so its not like everybody would just go find an alternative).  So maybe in some places there's something that should be done.

But, I still agree that the better use of money is focused on root causes and support.

Yes, I didn’t mean to suggest that no action would be reasonable, just that many possible actions would not be reasonable.

Same applies to non-suicide deaths, for that matter. At some point people are responsible for their own safety, and a property owner should not have liability for everything bad that happens near their property.

[Canard]

I see people walking on the tracks all the time near my house - it's disgusting.

Where? If you’re talking about the Spur Line, especially during the day, then it’s frankly a bit silly to claim that there is a safety problem with this.

If you’re talking about the mainline then I agree.

Once I took the kids to the old Cambridge station for photos. Before we got out of the car I told them very strictly that “this line is not like the one that goes past our house” and explained about speed and that we were all going to stay way back from the tracks. We were lucky enough to witness a quite long freight train moving at substantial speed with many different kinds of cars. Both fun to see for itself, and also a nice demonstration to the kids that their dad actually knows what he’s talking about, at least some of the time!

I am talking about the main line.

I've even seen impatient pedestrians cut through a train, between cars, while shunting. Death wish.

[ijmorlan]

Where? If you’re talking about the Spur Line, especially during the day, then it’s frankly a bit silly to claim that there is a safety problem with this.

If you’re talking about the mainline then I agree.

Once I took the kids to the old Cambridge station for photos. Before we got out of the car I told them very strictly that “this line is not like the one that goes past our house” and explained about speed and that we were all going to stay way back from the tracks. We were lucky enough to witness a quite long freight train moving at substantial speed with many different kinds of cars. Both fun to see for itself, and also a nice demonstration to the kids that their dad actually knows what he’s talking about, at least some of the time!

I am talking about the main line.

I've even seen impatient pedestrians cut through a train, between cars, while shunting. Death wish.

Wow. Don’t these people know that shunting is unpredictable? There is a reason they changed car coupler design to eliminate the buffers. And there are two tracks! You can’t always see what is happening on the other track. I can see why you have a low opinion of railway trespassing…

[Canard]

Does anyone know why GO's Bike Train, from Toronto to Niagara Falls, doesn't stop in Hamilton?

It has limited stops, but I would have thought Hamilton is a major enough point for picking up travelers... or dropping them off - Hamilton has lots of great cycling, too!

[DHLawrence]

It'll probably only be on the table once they start running all trains to West Harbour. I'm not sure it's finished yet.