Trails

[Pheidippides]

Actually the gate between the plaza and the trail has been open for some time now. Still no bike parking, but I think it is one of the reasons that plaza is flourishing. All those businesses, I think First Choice is the only chain/non-independent one, seem to be doing well. Chopan Kabob is a regular in our rotation and we frequent a number of the businesses there. Highland Camera just moved in too.

[danbrotherston]

The medical centre is a great example of why this is stupid.  There's also the Church, which I think has even embraced the trail (they put signage next to the trail sometimes), but still has no actual paved path for I assume, historic, reasons.  As for why you can't just branch off at the last road, you can, by why should we have too.  No such excuse would be made for cars most of the time (even though it often makes much more sense for cars to detour), and when it comes to cyclists, well, there's no infra on Belmont, its not the scariest road, but it is still much more scary than the trail.

When it comes down too it, I was deliberate when I said "cultural". When the IHT was built, it was seen as a recreational feature only.  Businesses wouldn't want to be connected too it, because the people on it wouldn't want to be connected to businesses.  They aren't going anywhere, they're only going for a walk.  If they were going to a business, they'd get in their car like a proper person.

Despite this sounding obviously stupid in this forum, it's still a pervasive belief among many, even many business owners.  Even in uptown how many business owners believe that 90+% of their customers arrive by car?  This is why the uptown business study that the city/university did before the bike lanes went in was so important.

As for the shenanigans issue, I think it's a fear, but I don't think it's an actual problem.  In fact, I think making a unofficial desire line is worse, than an official entrance.

However, we will see how the trail re-build goes over.  Making some of the unofficial accesses official was one goal of the project, maybe some of the businesses will get (or even want) a connection.

[goggolor]

Actually the gate between the plaza and the trail has been open for some time now. Still no bike parking, but I think it is one of the reasons that plaza is flourishing. All those businesses, I think First Choice is the only chain/non-independent one, seem to be doing well. Chopan Kabob is a regular in our rotation and we frequent a number of the businesses there. Highland Camera just moved in too.

Good to know the gate is open - when I started going a couple summers ago there was no visible point of entry from the trail so since then I've always cut down Patricia. The lack of bike racks is a bigger issue I think - it doesn't make me feel welcome to have to lock my bike to a hydro pole or a metal sign on Highland. In the back of my mind I'm always wondering if my bike is going to get taken away for being chained to something it shouldn't.

[jamincan]

I doubt that most businesses have even considered the possibility of providing a direct connection to the IHT regardless of their perceptions of cyclists. It's not even something I would have considered a possibility prior to the idea being broached in this thread.

[panamaniac]

Sounds like the trail-using community needs to step up its advocacy with the City and with trail-bordering businesses (I wonder as well if some have just never thought about it?).

Edit:  I wonder if the Catalyst 137 developers wouldn't be helpful in this regard - the IHT would make a nice short cut to the amenities of Belmont between Glasgow and Gage (such as they are...).

[danbrotherston]

Actually the gate between the plaza and the trail has been open for some time now. Still no bike parking, but I think it is one of the reasons that plaza is flourishing. All those businesses, I think First Choice is the only chain/non-independent one, seem to be doing well. Chopan Kabob is a regular in our rotation and we frequent a number of the businesses there. Highland Camera just moved in too.

Good to know the gate is open - when I started going a couple summers ago there was no visible point of entry from the trail so since then I've always cut down Patricia. The lack of bike racks is a bigger issue I think - it doesn't make me feel welcome to have to lock my bike to a hydro pole or a metal sign on Highland. In the back of my mind I'm always wondering if my bike is going to get taken away for being chained to something it shouldn't.

I'm in the reverse boat.  I've used that trail for years, and I know there's a plaza there, but because of inaccessibility and zero visibility from the trail I have no idea what businesses are there, and consequently never consider patronizing them.

As for no bike parking, that problem is epidemic on Highland Rd., I have complained numerous times to the Sobeys.

[KevinL]

  No such excuse would be made for cars most of the time (even though it often makes much more sense for cars to detour), and when it comes to cyclists, well, there's no infra on Belmont, its not the scariest road, but it is still much more scary than the trail.

And, of course, Belmont doesn't need good bike infrastructure here because the far superior trail is so close.

[darts]

The medical centre is a great example of why this is stupid.  There's also the Church, which I think has even embraced the trail (they put signage next to the trail sometimes), but still has no actual paved path for I assume, historic, reasons.  As for why you can't just branch off at the last road, you can, by why should we have too.  No such excuse would be made for cars most of the time (even though it often makes much more sense for cars to detour), and when it comes to cyclists, well, there's no infra on Belmont, its not the scariest road, but it is still much more scary than the trail.

When it comes down too it, I was deliberate when I said "cultural". When the IHT was built, it was seen as a recreational feature only.  Businesses wouldn't want to be connected too it, because the people on it wouldn't want to be connected to businesses.  They aren't going anywhere, they're only going for a walk.  If they were going to a business, they'd get in their car like a proper person.

Despite this sounding obviously stupid in this forum, it's still a pervasive belief among many, even many business owners.  Even in uptown how many business owners believe that 90+% of their customers arrive by car?  This is why the uptown business study that the city/university did before the bike lanes went in was so important.

As for the shenanigans issue, I think it's a fear, but I don't think it's an actual problem.  In fact, I think making a unofficial desire line is worse, than an official entrance.

However, we will see how the trail re-build goes over.  Making some of the unofficial accesses official was one goal of the project, maybe some of the businesses will get (or even want) a connection.

Most of what is involved in security is based on fear, people lock their car doors when it is on their driveway because of fear even though rationally it should be fine, who would walk in and out of everyone's driveway and check car doors to try and steal some small change, but it happens a lot.  Walking by on a trail that goes behind buildings that doesn't have a lot of eyeballs back there invites a lot of opportunity for something to happen and there are crimes that take place because the opportunity arises. I appreciate that you don't think it is an issue but there is a reason most people with backyards that back onto a trail or railway have a fence or some sort of barrier in place, otherwise stuff starts to go missing.

[KevinL]

Nothing precludes properties like the medical centre from creating a locked gate that they close after business hours.

[darts]

Nothing precludes properties like the medical centre from creating a locked gate that they close after business hours.

Might get some negative reaction from some trail users who would decry that it is a double standard that vehicle traffic doesn't encounter since they don't have locked gates to get into the parking lot.

[danbrotherston]

Nothing precludes properties like the medical centre from creating a locked gate that they close after business hours.

Might get some negative reaction from some trail users who would decry that it is a double standard that vehicle traffic doesn't encounter since they don't have locked gates to get into the parking lot.

Some places do close the parking lots to cars.

What I'm saying is actually that an official entrance has less issues than the unofficial ones that invariably get created.  

It is better to own and design the entrance properly than just letting people do whatever.

[Smore]

Sounds like the trail-using community needs to step up its advocacy with the City and with trail-bordering businesses (I wonder as well if some have just never thought about it?).

Start with CE Bakery on Spurline - it was a key reason she located there according to the Janes Walk visit.

[plam]

If it's the medical centre I'm thinking of, they have switched to pay parking which might well close after hours?

[danbrotherston]

The iron horse trail is now marked as closed with no warning, no detour, no timeframe.  Worse, it's pointlessly closed, you can go around the signs and up the trail and there's only one place where you have to cross over into an adjacent parking lot to go around the workers, but its right at Glasgow.  Even worse, the sign at the North end is actually blocking cyclists from accessing Glasgow--only the sign is in the way, no construction.

   

   

[tomh009]

A few more MUT photos from Europe:

Near Telford, England: cattle gates forcing bicyclists to slow down or dismount before entering a tunnel.
   

In Tampere, Finland: About 50% allocated to bicyclists (split into two lanes) and 50% to pedestrians, clearly marked: