Trails

[timc]

The law and signage of roundabouts is a mess.

It must have been incredibly frustrating for the driver, which might explain their annoyance.
* You came to the intersection on a bike
* The driver doesn't know if you are about to dismount and walk across or if you are going to ride
* The driver is supposed to know that if you stay on your bike, you can cross the intersection as long as you ride along, but not within, the crosswalk
* There are several signs around that say to yield (yes, there is a picture of a pedestrian, but the YIELD sign is first and foremost)
* If you are going to walk, they should yield to you; if you are going to bike, they don't have to
* Either way, the driver doesn't have to yield, because the sign isn't actually enforceable under any current law
* All of this is going on while they are traversing a very busy intersection and processing a lot of information all at once.

And for you, of course, it may be dangerous for you to cross because of the nature of the roundabout, and I don't blame you for being extra cautious.

I guess I have to object a bit to your use of scare quotes around "courteous". And while they may have been looking your way while shouting, it could be that they are more frustrated with the situation than with you as a cyclist. I mean, they didn't roll down their windows or anything.

[clasher]

I drive through this same roundabout much more than I ever bike through it. It's pretty easy to pay attention to all the traffic and pedestrians... those that can't handle it should just give up driving, roundabouts aren't rocket science. This driver could have made it through the roundabout before I got close to the crossing but instead they immediately slowed down once they noticed me instead of speeding up and exiting the roundabout before I could have ever reached the crossing. I got both my feet on ground about 20 feet away from the crossing and waved them forward and shook my head "no" when they insisted I cross, by which time traffic was passing them in the left lane. The only thing that got them to finally move on was me riding down H-W. I'm not sorry that they found the experience frustrating but I'm not about to just trust some random driver to control the cars behind them that can't see why they are stopped in the middle of the roundabout. Honestly the only reason I think they stopped is a misplaced sense of "courtesy". If they had been "selfish" and just sped up there wouldn't have been an unsafe situation created... hence the "scare quotes"

[timc]

I happened to go through this roundabout yesterday. I was a bit incorrect in my post. The sign doesn't say YIELD to pedestrians. It says STOP for pedestrians in large letters. I still think that the proliferation of constantly changing signage is a real challenge for drivers.

[MidTowner]

Second that on signage. It’s difficult to keep track.

After clasher’s comments on trail crossings, I was feeling particularly annoyed yesterday afternoon when, at three consecutive street crossings on the Spur Line, motorists going in one direction stopped for me and became annoyed when I waited to make sure motorists in the other direction would, too. But, this morning on Guelph Street, I noted that the sign the motorists see says Pedestrian/Cyclist Crossing. What does that mean? I can see an interpretation being that trail traffic has the right of way. From my perspective, it’s a pretty obvious stop sign and, since I can see they have none, obviously I stop until they proceed. For them, though, they may think that it’s a trail crossing and they need to yield the right of way, and get pissed off (for some of them, this is pretty quick) when I make them stay stopped longer than they think they “have” to.

[clasher]

There's not really any signage for the pedestrians or riders to follow at a roundabout, sometimes the bike lanes end at a curb cut and that indicates riders should be on the sidewalk but there's no sensible reason to have them dismount. There is a lot of confusion for both parties in these interactions. I've noticed there are little stop signs on the Iron Horse at street crossings but they are high up on the top of posts and I doubt many people even notice them. For now I will just continue turning around when people insist I walk in front of their running cars in gear, even if it gets 'em riled up.

[Canard]

It sounds like all of this aggression (on all sides) is attributed to poor or conflicting signage.

Whenever I am walking or biking and face a situation like this, where I know it is faster for all parties involved to just let the car go through and then me next, I just kind of move away from the intersection, slow down so I'm not getting there at the same time as them, or make it look like I have no intention of crossing. They go through in 0.1 second without slowing down, and I am delayed 0.1 second, and I have avoided all possible confrontation with no anxiety and all is good.

[Pheidippides]

Can someone explain what this sign on the Spurline trail means? What is the significance of July 2017?
   

[Canard]

That's very, very interesting. That roughly corresponds with when ion is supposed to open... within a few months.

It's as if it implies that freight service will stop at that time... which isn't correct, obviously, since the entire light rail line has been built to accommodate the freight service which runs along this very line.

[GtwoK]

The Spurline also has very little bearing on Ion, save for the small section in uptown.

[Markster]

Well, it's only a "warning", which is like a warning, but less official.

[darts]

Could be, they expect fencing to be in place by than, before that time they think you will ride on the trail and the tracks without noticing because the transition will be so seamless.

They may be worried something will be left on the tracks and hit someone on the trail

They aren't entirely sure the train tracks are nailed down so the train could derail on you

There are people planning on stopping the train in order to swap the Methylamine with water and don't want you poking your nose into their business.

The train is shy

[ijmorlan]

That's very, very interesting.  That roughly corresponds with when ion is supposed to open... within a few months.

It's as if it implies that freight service will stop at that time... which isn't correct, obviously, since the entire light rail line has been built to accommodate the freight service which runs along this very line.

It’s utter nonsense. I guarantee that the actual “explanation” doesn’t make sense. I want to hear it in the same way that I want to see a slow-mo replay of a bad automobile collision. Please tell me that the people involved know it’s nonsense but feel constrained by inflexible rules. There is absolutely no risk worth spending time thinking about of injury to anybody involving interactions between the train and the trail. This is what you get when there is a culture of obeying and enforcing rules precisely, like computers, instead of taking into account local conditions.

[Canard]

Sadly, I think that's exactly what has occurred along the Spur Line of ion through Waterloo Park and the University of Waterloo.

Now that I re-read the sign, I bet that's it - the trail is closed at night until 2017 - at which point, they install a fence... so it can stay open.

[MidTowner]

People have been using the trail at all hours of the day for ages. That was okay because it was they who were liable for whatever might happen, since they weren’t supposed to be there and no one made any representation about safety. Now, the municipality has paved the trail and is inviting people to use it, but there’s some risk (I’m sure there’s some) of something happening when the train goes by, so they put up the sign. Between the hours of 11:00 and 7:00, people use the trail but the municipality assumes no liability. Problem solved.

Edit: Just in case, I point out that the above was said tongue-in-cheek. But it is a case that someone wondered how safety could be guaranteed when trains are passing; since it can't, just say the trail is closed when trains are running, and the risk is the user's.

[Canard]

I'm not sure it's so simple. Along the ion route, the tracks are being modified - so, they have to be built to a new set of rules, outlined by Transport Canada - hence the massive crossing gate arms, lights and bells, and the fence everywhere.

So, it stands to reason that since they've upgraded a majority of the line in the North end of the city... the link between this new, upgraded track (which will permit freight to operate at higher speeds) should also get upgraded as well.

If they don't, it goes like this: "High" speed track, crappy track (<10 km/h w. flagman) along the spur, back to "High" speed track (the ion Waterloo spur), then back to crappy track.

If they upgrade by putting fences and proper crossings at all the places along the Spur Line Trail, then that's one less in/out the crew has to make out of the cab to let the flagman out and all that.

It's just a royal mess, really, because of all this hardline rule-following and not really zooming out and looking at the application.