Winter Walking and Cycling

[MidTowner]

Again, part of why I gave up and left. Admittedly, if you just want to fix the sidewalk problem, you don't have to go nearly as far as you think. London, St. Marys, even Elmira have municipal sidewalk clearing that is infinitely (yes, infinitely, the denominator is 0 after all) better than Kitchener's.

I grew up in London. The service is definitely not perfect, Londoners could (and do) complain the city doesn't come quickly enough. But eventually, the sidewalks will be cleared and, once they are, you know they all are.

I spoke with Kitchener bylaw this morning, and their main challenge to hear them explain it is they have to wait 24 hours after each snowfall to investigate a complaint. The clock resets multiple times if we have more snow, and then even really egregious cases take weeks to have anything done about them.

The person I spoke with talked to me about a case of a vacant property whose sidewalk has never been cleared this winter. It was apparently reported by someone on January 10, bylaw tried unsuccessfully to call the owner, and it is now due to be cleared. That will likely not happen until the end of this week, so in this case it takes

[creative]

Sounds like the property across the street from me.

[danbrotherston]

Again, part of why I gave up and left. Admittedly, if you just want to fix the sidewalk problem, you don't have to go nearly as far as you think. London, St. Marys, even Elmira have municipal sidewalk clearing that is infinitely (yes, infinitely, the denominator is 0 after all) better than Kitchener's.

I grew up in London. The service is definitely not perfect, Londoners could (and do) complain the city doesn't come quickly enough. But eventually, the sidewalks will be cleared and, once they are, you know they all are.

Yeah, I'm also from London, I have tried to explain this to city councilors, and most of them were willing to play stupid and continue to pretend that Kitchener is better because a few homeowners clear sidewalks better than the city. And I say "playing stupid" because I don't for one second believe that people elected to council aren't smart enough to understand this.

I spoke with Kitchener bylaw this morning, and their main challenge to hear them explain it is they have to wait 24 hours after each snowfall to investigate a complaint. The clock resets multiple times if we have more snow, and then even really egregious cases take weeks to have anything done about them.

Yeah, I've pointed this out before, they do not care. They pretend it's not a big deal and pretend that the 24 hour clock makes perfect sense.

The person I spoke with talked to me about a case of a vacant property whose sidewalk has never been cleared this winter. It was apparently reported by someone on January 10, bylaw tried unsuccessfully to call the owner, and it is now due to be cleared. That will likely not happen until the end of this week, so in this case it takes

And this is exactly the result. They will clear the sidewalk once in the winter after weeks of complaints. They do this not because it is at all meaningful in keeping sidewalks clear, but because it gives them plausible deniability that they believe (although I don't think this has been literally tested in court) protects them from lawsuits about violation of accessibility law.

Literally the point of doing this is to shut you and I up.

But on the plus side, sometimes occasionally a sidewalk might get cleared as a side effect.

I literally have nothing polite to say about this. I advocated a lot for biking, but even I feel that was a fringe position. This issue is the one that radicalized me.

[creative]

“a few homeowners clear sidewalks better than the city” Utter bullshit! You obviously didn’t get out much when you lived here. Why do you even care… you left!

[neonjoe]

^ Dan was referring to the councillor' view that there are homeowners that clear better than the city, not his own.

[ijmorlan]

^ Dan was referring to the councillor' view that there are homeowners that clear better than the city, not his own.

There are clearly some homeowners that do a better job than the City would. The problem is extending that to a belief that in general we are better off with each property owner clearing the sidewalk in front of their property, which is clearly not true in practice and it’s hard to believe it would ever be true even in principle.

[KevinL]

Exactly; we should never use the best result to set a metric, but rather account for the worst. Which they don't seem capable of doing.

[Acitta]

^ Dan was referring to the councillor' view that there are homeowners that clear better than the city, not his own.

There are clearly some homeowners that do a better job than the City would. The problem is extending that to a belief that in general we are better off with each property owner clearing the sidewalk in front of their property, which is clearly not true in practice and it’s hard to believe it would ever be true even in principle.

On my block of Stirling Ave., there are homeowners that truly do clear the sidewalk right down to the concrete. However, that doesn't help much when the sidewalk in front of the next property is not cleared at all, and I am trying to get to the bus stop with my walker.

[danbrotherston]

There are clearly some homeowners that do a better job than the City would. The problem is extending that to a belief that in general we are better off with each property owner clearing the sidewalk in front of their property, which is clearly not true in practice and it’s hard to believe it would ever be true even in principle.

On my block of Stirling Ave., there are homeowners that truly do clear the sidewalk right down to the concrete. However, that doesn't help much when the sidewalk in front of the next property is not cleared at all, and I am trying to get to the bus stop with my walker.

This is precisely it.

[plam]

I just walked from say Bridgeport and King to 1 Victoria this morning, mostly along Moore. I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by how passable the sidewalks were. Of course I have no mobility impairments. It's notable that there is no sidewalk outside the cemetery.

Iron Horse and Spur Line have been pretty well cleared this year.

The trail between Seagram and University is not great. There is a bit on Victoria near Margaret which is completely unplowed.

As always, getting into the sidewalk from the street can be a bit of an issue because of the snowbanks but that is a problem everywhere.

[dtkvictim]

I just walked from say Bridgeport and King to 1 Victoria this morning, mostly along Moore. I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by how passable the sidewalks were. Of course I have no mobility impairments. It's notable that there is no sidewalk outside the cemetery.

Iron Horse and Spur Line have been pretty well cleared this year.

The trail between Seagram and University is not great.  There is a bit on Victoria near Margaret which is completely unplowed.

As always, getting into the sidewalk from the street can be a bit of an issue because of the snowbanks but that is a problem everywhere.

I went out for a long walk less than 24 hours after the big snowfall Wednesday, and found the sidewalks pretty reasonable. The big issue was that probably 50% of crosswalks had a 3-4 foot tall snowbank and no cutout to get through. And a lot of impatient drivers who don't want to wait for you to climb over them.

[MidTowner]

I just walked from say Bridgeport and King to 1 Victoria this morning, mostly along Moore. I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by how passable the sidewalks were. Of course I have no mobility impairments. It's notable that there is no sidewalk outside the cemetery.

Iron Horse and Spur Line have been pretty well cleared this year.

The trail between Seagram and University is not great.  There is a bit on Victoria near Margaret which is completely unplowed.

As always, getting into the sidewalk from the street can be a bit of an issue because of the snowbanks but that is a problem everywhere.

I went out for a long walk less than 24 hours after the big snowfall Wednesday, and found the sidewalks pretty reasonable. The big issue was that probably 50% of crosswalks had a 3-4 foot tall snowbank and no cutout to get through. And a lot of impatient drivers who don't want to wait for you to climb over them.

Those big windrows blocking the sidewalk means that all of those good neighbours who are clearing their sidewalks are kind of wasting their time: where people have not cleared the windrows at the corners, anyone who can not climb over them are forced to walk in the streets.

It's pretty difficult to clear those piles that the plow leaves after a big snowfall like we had yesterday. The system we're using doesn't work for big snowfalls, though it also hasn't worked in recent years when we haven't received much snow at all.

I've been really impressed with how well and quickly the Spur Line has been cleared this year. But we're not getting full effect of that investment when the rest of the network is unusable for such long periods.

[KevinL]

We really ought to be getting better clearing when you're this close to a rapid transit station. https://bsky.app/profile/briandoucet.bsk...f2kzh2ls2a

[cherrypark]

This is what I will never understand about the region/cities taking an all or nothing approach. I don't care if someone in South Huron complains they are paying for snow clearing downtown but their suburban sidewalks are up to them. Why invest billions in a transit system and better active transport only to hamstring its utility for 3 months of the year?