Grand River Transit

[coriander]

You can buy paper PRESTO tickets at every TTC subway station. Pay at the TVM, it prints out a ticket for you. You can get 1-trip or 2-trip tickets, where one trip is the 2-hour transfer window. You can also get day passes. The ticket works with the tap points; you tap just as you would with a card.

For this reason, I don't think paper tickets are a stumbling block for GRT requirements.

[Bytor]

@Bytor, it’s clear you hate presto. But comparing TTCs rollout with ours is disingenuous. TTC is the biggest and most complex transit system in Canada. If you want me to feel that Presto is so bad that it was likely to be delayed more than EasyGO then you gotta show it failing on comparable systems, I don’t believe there are similar examples which is why you keep Coming back to TTC and that weakens your argument.

But it’s clear you aren’t budging on this. All I’ll say is that these arguments you make about compelling to me. Using presto as our fare card wouldn’t have precluded anything we’ve discussed. If you want to convince me (or others) you’re going to need different, less BS arguments.

Whole lotta moving the goalposts there, Dan.

Plus, you don't even acknowledge what you got wrong, like the paper tickets and tapping.

Give it up, dude, and just admit that you're cherry-picking and not arguing in good faith.

[Bytor]

You can buy paper PRESTO tickets at every TTC subway station. Pay at the TVM, it prints out a ticket for you. You can get 1-trip or 2-trip tickets, where one trip is the 2-hour transfer window. You can also get day passes. The ticket works with the tap points; you tap just as you would with a card.

For this reason, I don't think paper tickets are a stumbling block for GRT requirements.

Now they do, but that wasn't an option when EasyGO was being tendered.

[danbrotherston]

You can buy paper PRESTO tickets at every TTC subway station. Pay at the TVM, it prints out a ticket for you. You can get 1-trip or 2-trip tickets, where one trip is the 2-hour transfer window. You can also get day passes. The ticket works with the tap points; you tap just as you would with a card.

For this reason, I don't think paper tickets are a stumbling block for GRT requirements.

Now they do, but that wasn't an option when EasyGO was being tendered.

This is such a ridiculous argument. Paper tickets do not matter. And if we wanted paper tickets presto does not prevent us using paper tickets. We did so with easygo as well, and I don’t mean the ones easygo prints I mean we accepted oldschool paper tickets while also accepting easygo. So does London. 

And if you say “well it’s not part of presto then” sure, but arguing we should maintain our own entire payment care system to avoid maintaining our own paper ticket system alongside presto is missing the point.

[danbrotherston]

@Bytor, it’s clear you hate presto. But comparing TTCs rollout with ours is disingenuous. TTC is the biggest and most complex transit system in Canada. If you want me to feel that Presto is so bad that it was likely to be delayed more than EasyGO then you gotta show it failing on comparable systems, I don’t believe there are similar examples which is why you keep Coming back to TTC and that weakens your argument.

But it’s clear you aren’t budging on this. All I’ll say is that these arguments you make about compelling to me. Using presto as our fare card wouldn’t have precluded anything we’ve discussed. If you want to convince me (or others) you’re going to need different, less BS arguments.

Whole lotta moving the goalposts there, Dan.

Plus, you don't even acknowledge what you got wrong, like the paper tickets and tapping.

Give it up, dude, and just admit that you're cherry-picking and not arguing in good faith.

This is not what I meant when I said you should get a better argument. And if I’m moving the goalposts it’s because you put them in a ridiculous place.  Comparing GRT to TTC is ridiculous. There are many GTA agencies comparable to GRT that you could compare with but those ones went smoothly so is that called cherry-picking?

[KevinL]

New routes 62 and 78 (east of Sportsworld) and 91 (Late Night Loop) will start Sept 2. Exact routings and timings can be accessed by PDF here: https://www.grt.ca/en/schedules-maps/schedules.aspx

[Kevin161617]

I'm so happy to see all these service increases and new routes!

But does anyone know why frequencies are being reduced on route 9 and 30 from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes? Whenever I've ridden those routes they were well used. Plus Northlake residents already lost route 73 and now there's less service on route 9 too. I feel like something doesn't add up...

[ac3r]

Fall service starts soon and it got me wondering...do you think at this point with the size of the population being likely close to 650'00+, we should just keep a consistent schedule? I don't really get the point in reducing service when people still need to get around in a region soon approaching a million people.

[bravado]

It's really strange - if anything needs to change in our regional transit, I would have to assume it's the seasonal load from students. But even then, why not just treat transit seriously and stop tinkering for weird cost savings?

[neonjoe]

It's really strange - if anything needs to change in our regional transit, I would have to assume it's the seasonal load from students. But even then, why not just treat transit seriously and stop tinkering for weird cost savings?

Remember Cambridge Transit... GRT is adequate but it used to be much much much much worse. When they were merged into GRT they had < 20 buses under 12 years old.
Who knows Cambridge Transit might come back soon...

[bravado]

Just because mediocrity is better than absolute dogshit, doesn't mean we should be happy with mediocrity. We already have no ambition in so many local services, I'd love to reverse the trend..

The bus should come at the same time every day of the year. It should be reliable, boring, and dependable because it is treated as an important public service and not just some budget inconvenience.

[tomh009]

The bus should come at the same time every day of the year. It should be reliable, boring, and dependable because it is treated as an important public service and not just some budget inconvenience.

It's ultimately a zero-sum game, though. I you decide to run more buses when utilization is low, you'll need to run fewer buses somewhere else. Unless you get more budget--but, even then, you'll need to decide the same thing and prioritize a uniform schedule vs more buses elsewhere (or another route).

[danbrotherston]

The bus should come at the same time every day of the year. It should be reliable, boring, and dependable because it is treated as an important public service and not just some budget inconvenience.

It's ultimately a zero-sum game, though. I you decide to run more buses when utilization is low, you'll need to run fewer buses somewhere else. Unless you get more budget--but, even then, you'll need to decide the same thing and prioritize a uniform schedule vs more buses elsewhere (or another route).

I mean, this isn’t true in either the short or long term. Or at least it doesn’t need to be. In the immediate term, more buses to run a consistent schedule would take more investment. We don’t have to keep funding at its current level if we don’t choose too (admittedly we are choosing between different potential investments) but also in the long term a more stable effective service will gain more ridership than if we kept the service at the current level.

[tomh009]

We don’t have to keep funding at its current level if we don’t choose too (admittedly we are choosing between different potential investments) but also in the long term a more stable effective service will gain more ridership than if we kept the service at the current level.

As you said, it's always a choice of how to spend a given budget. Will more buses in the summer gain more ridership than adding frequency on, say, route 7? Or would it be better to add a completely new route?

There are always multiple options for a given budget, and I don't have the data to know whether running the same schedule in the summer would be the best one. But, for sure, there are also other improvements that could be implemented instead for that same budget. Which one would have the most benefit, or gain additional ridership? I expect that GRT makes these kinds of evaluations regularly, and so far they have determined that more frequent summer service is not the best use of the budget.

So, it's not a question of whether avoiding a seasonal schedule is a good thing or not, it's a matter of making choices.

[Bytor]

I'm so happy to see all these service increases and new routes!

But does anyone know why frequencies are being reduced on route 9 and 30 from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes? Whenever I've ridden those routes they were well used. Plus Northlake residents already lost route 73 and now there's less service on route 9 too. I feel like something doesn't add up...

Purely political budgeting. GRT is under huge pressure to not increase their budget, in spite of the strains on the system.