General Road and Highway Discussion

[danbrotherston]

New project up on the EngageWR website:
https://www.engagewr.ca/victoria-street-modifications

"The Region of Waterloo is looking to make modifications to Victoria Street in Kitchener near the future Kitchener Central Transit Hub."

"This project is focused on Victoria Street North (Regional Road 55) from King Street West (Regional Road 15) to Weber Street West (Regional Road 8)."

Their preferred design alternative is illustrated on slide 47:
https://ehq-production-canada.s3.ca-cent...5f6afb4534

One small thing I noticed from their proposed design is that it omits the driveway entrance to the proposed parking lot (present homeless encampment) at the corner of Weber. It was originally shown in the latest available drawings of the transit hub.

https://ehq-production-canada.s3.ca-cent...bc2b0ee5e6

I assume that the Region's recent acquisition of the neighbouring property has allowed them to either redesign the parking lot, or to abandon the lot idea completely.

Well, I'm impressed, honestly. The proposal is actually very progressive.

It actually achieves two of the three features that make Dutch roads great....good (or at least existent) multi-modal infra, and limiting space for cars. The third, completely re-organizing the road network to unravel travel types and modes (i.e., streets and roads are separate, bikes and cars are separate, limiting the need for intersections to manage conflicts) is...significantly harder and less relevant in the downtown context.

So yeah, I'm for it...going down to two lanes is actually a really good start..and it should also give more additional ammunition to the idea that retaining four lanes to the west isn't needed.

And bus lanes are great to see, especially in a context where there might be some congestion in the future (albeit, they do represent more space and pavement used).

I mean, this isn't graduation day from the remedial class yet, but I'd consider grade A work. If the region keeps this up for 20-30 years, and I'll eventually feel silly for moving.

[dtkvictim]

When did the North sidewalk of Weber St get designated as a multi-use pathway? My recollection was that only the south sidewalk was, but this document and the Kitchener bike map both show it as a MUP. I think there is only signage out there indicating the south side is.

It's frustrating not only figuring out what's practical for cycling, but also what's legal.

The proposal looks nice, but what's the purpose of the crossride over Victoria St at King St?

[danbrotherston]

When did the North sidewalk of Weber St get designated as a multi-use pathway? My recollection was that only the south sidewalk was, but this document and the Kitchener bike map both show it as a MUP. I think there is only signage out there indicating the south side is.

It's frustrating not only figuring out what's practical for cycling, but also what's legal.

The proposal looks nice, but what's the purpose of the crossride over Victoria St at King St?

King St is a supersharrow route south of Victoria. To the north there is MUTs on the side (through the station). 

It’s not actually so bad but they need to limit cars on King if they were serious about it.

[SF22]

Also upcoming on that stretch of Victoria St, traffic lights are going to be installed at Victoria/Ahrens at the GO station entrance/exit, and a multi-use path installed from the Victoria/Weber corner to properly connect into the GO station. Work is meant to be completed within 2024, according to a regional rep.

Some information is here: https://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/livin...oSheet.pdf

More details coming within a few weeks, on the EngageWR website, as they begin the project. No intention at this time to link the MUT all the way to the Margaret Ave cycle tracks.

[cherrypark]

When did the North sidewalk of Weber St get designated as a multi-use pathway? My recollection was that only the south sidewalk was, but this document and the Kitchener bike map both show it as a MUP. I think there is only signage out there indicating the south side is.

It's frustrating not only figuring out what's practical for cycling, but also what's legal.

The proposal looks nice, but what's the purpose of the crossride over Victoria St at King St?

The underpass sidewalks have been MUTs since it was built but without any of the signage or line markings to make that obvious. They are just extra wide sidewalks that are supposed to be implied as MUTs as far as I know. The reason the north side might not have been obvious is because it only lasts 1 block so it's been a relatively useless stub.

[dtkvictim]

King St is a supersharrow route south of Victoria. To the north there is MUTs on the side (through the station). 

It’s not actually so bad but they need to limit cars on King if they were serious about it.

Supersharrow, hah. The cycletrack crossing over King St I get, because it connects to the Transit Hub trail. But crossing over Victoria St I don't, because it just dumps you into a (currently) very narrow sidewalk next to the Kaufman lofts. Not sure where you would go from there without walking anyways. Hopefully that corner will be expanded regardless, but I can't quite tell from the PDF if that's the case.

The underpass sidewalks have been MUTs since it was built but without any of the signage or line markings to make that obvious. They are just extra wide sidewalks that are supposed to be implied as MUTs as far as I know. The reason the north side might not have been obvious is because it only lasts 1 block so it's been a relatively useless stub.

The south side has at least had signage since somewhere between 2017-2019 according the street view. Not sure why they wouldn't put it on the north side at the same time... I was walking with a co-worker there once, who complained that a cyclist passed us on the sidewalk, when he should have been using the road which, according to him, has bike lanes. So a double misunderstanding due to the Region's poor design language.

[KevinL]

I was walking with a co-worker there once, who complained that a cyclist passed us on the sidewalk, when he should have been using the road which, according to him, has bike lanes. So a double misunderstanding due to the Region's poor design language.

Ah yes, that narrow outermost 'lane'. It's basically just buffer space, but looks about the same as a bike lane would. The one thing it lacks is bike lane markings, which is really the only way to tell it isn't one. Very poorly designed.

[plam]

Lol...they're also wrong...like they'll explain the 12 meter standard using all the right statements--that there needs to be enough room for a vehicle to stop outside the circle to not block traffic, but to wait for people crossing--and while we all like to joke about oversized SUVs...even the largest vehicles in Canada are not 12 meters long.

Ahh...sometimes I miss going to those meeting...it was fun to have to care about technical details...

Speaking of blocking traffic & roundabouts. In New Zealand (as everywhere else), traffic in the roundabout usually has priority to traffic not in the roundabout. However, there seems to be this weird exception. There are two kinds of pedestrian crossings: ones with orange balls posted above the crossing and ones without. The ones without, well, you're kind of on your own as a pedestrian. But if there is an orange ball, pedestrians have absolute priority, even to the point that cars in roundabouts have to wait for pedestrians before they can exit the roundabout.

[cherrypark]

The south side has at least had signage since somewhere between 2017-2019 according the street view. Not sure why they wouldn't put it on the north side at the same time... I was walking with a co-worker there once, who complained that a cyclist passed us on the sidewalk, when he should have been using the road which, according to him, has bike lanes. So a double misunderstanding due to the Region's poor design language.

Yeah the painted lines around the gutter on the road make it look like bike lanes but they are not anywhere near wide enough. I would guess the lack of signage on the north is owning to the fact that it goes from nowhere to nowhere so they just did the south side for now, consistency aside.

[SF22]

Construction on East Avenue between Krug and Chapel coming along.

   

[Bytor]

New project up on the EngageWR website:
https://www.engagewr.ca/victoria-street-modifications

"The Region of Waterloo is looking to make modifications to Victoria Street in Kitchener near the future Kitchener Central Transit Hub."

"This project is focused on Victoria Street North (Regional Road 55) from King Street West (Regional Road 15) to Weber Street West (Regional Road 8)."

Their preferred design alternative is illustrated on slide 47:
https://ehq-production-canada.s3.ca-cent...5f6afb4534

I like Active Transportation Alternative A the best. I am always skeptical about MUTs in high pedestrian-traffic areas like B and C propose, as well as bi-directional, single-side cycle-tracks. in the core.

The first, for the obvious reason that a MUT with a high number of pedestrians isn't really practical cycling infrastructure if you're constantly having to worry about the pedestrians. MUTs are only suitable when one or the other (usually both) are low.

The second, as it limits access by bike to destinations on the other side of the road.

Why can't the PPD shift the road lanes over by 1.8m and put one bike lane on each side?

BTW, for point of reference, Victoria St. S. from King St. to Weber St. W. has AADTs of roughly 22,000.

[danbrotherston]

New project up on the EngageWR website:
https://www.engagewr.ca/victoria-street-modifications

"The Region of Waterloo is looking to make modifications to Victoria Street in Kitchener near the future Kitchener Central Transit Hub."

"This project is focused on Victoria Street North (Regional Road 55) from King Street West (Regional Road 15) to Weber Street West (Regional Road 8)."

Their preferred design alternative is illustrated on slide 47:
https://ehq-production-canada.s3.ca-cent...5f6afb4534

I like Active Transportation Alternative A the best. I am always skeptical about MUTs in high pedestrian-traffic areas like B and C propose, as well as bi-directional, single-side cycle-tracks. in the core.

The first, for the obvious reason that a MUT with a high number of pedestrians isn't really practical cycling infrastructure if you're constantly having to worry about the pedestrians. MUTs are only suitable when one or the other (usually both) are low.

The second, as it limits access by bike to destinations on the other side of the road.

Why can't the PPD shift the road lanes over by 1.8m and put one bike lane on each side?

BTW, for point of reference, Victoria St. S. from King St. to Weber St. W. has AADTs of roughly 22,000.

Bi-directional cycle tracks are a context thing...and IIRC at least one of their proposals had an example where there was bidirectional between King and Duke St. which I think is an attempt to provide a bi-directional facility where there will be demand for it, which is like, legitimately good planning.

But yeah, it depends on what is on the other side whether a facility is needed there, and downtown, almost certainly there is a need.

[westwardloo]

I actually in favor of the Regions prefered alternative D. By-directional bikes lanes feel better to me. They seem like more permanent infrastructure then what would happen if they put a bike lane on each side of the road, which would more than likely have no barrier between vehicular and bike traffic. A double lane also provide a better opportunity to clear the bike lanes in the winter with smaller tractor plows. individual bike lines like Ottawa street just end up with the snow being plowed onto the bike lanes. I also think bike lanes  might be an easier sell, if we standardized the designs. The Region seems to build every possible type, which is frustrating as a cycler.  

I know when I bike, whether it was Vancouver, Toronto, or in KW I always feel safer on two-way bike lanes.

[Acitta]

New project up on the EngageWR website:
https://www.engagewr.ca/victoria-street-modifications

"The Region of Waterloo is looking to make modifications to Victoria Street in Kitchener near the future Kitchener Central Transit Hub."

"This project is focused on Victoria Street North (Regional Road 55) from King Street West (Regional Road 15) to Weber Street West (Regional Road 8)."

This page was updated on June 5. There is a public consultation on June 18.

[KevinL]

Lane reductions are now in place on Ottawa, just west of Westmount. Not sure how far it reaches, likely to Fischer-Hallman.