Road design, safety and Vision Zero

[timc]

Anybody got any pictures of Albert from Columbia to Erb to add to this reddit thread?

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/commen..._to_weber/

That's Columbia to Weber, not Columbia to Erb.

I went by there and took a bunch of photos today. I don't know how to add pictures here, but I created an album on imgur: https://imgur.com/a/HayqI1H

[danbrotherston]

Anybody got any pictures of Albert from Columbia to Erb to add to this reddit thread?

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/commen..._to_weber/

That's Columbia to Weber, not Columbia to Erb.

I went by there and took a bunch of photos today. I don't know how to add pictures here, but I created an album on imgur: https://imgur.com/a/HayqI1H

Wow...I'm amazed, I don't remember them saying to anyone they were going to do that. It's mostly pretty good. The floating bus stops are good (albeit the one looks tiny...), but otherwise it looks like an entirely typical north american protected bike lane.

Some strange choices like narrowing the bike lane at every entrance for some reason. And some typical choices like excessive turn radii and no protected intersections.

But for that to just come out of the blue...is really refreshing.

[ijmorlan]

Small steps, but maybe we can get this ship turned around.

[timc]

I thought the narrowing was odd too. But maybe it's to make the entrance to the bike lane too narrow for cars and trucks to enter, while keeping the existing road width.

The bus stop on the northbound side is on the right side of the bike lane. There is a tiny strip between the bike lane and the road, but you wouldn't wait there for the bus.

[danbrotherston]

I thought the narrowing was odd too. But maybe it's to make the entrance to the bike lane too narrow for cars and trucks to enter, while keeping the existing road width.

The bus stop on the northbound side is on the right side of the bike lane. There is a tiny strip between the bike lane and the road, but you wouldn't wait there for the bus.

My guess is that it is actually to make room for the sign, Kitchener managed to do it without a stupid widening of the curb, but I'm guessing some engineer somewhere in Waterloo felt that it couldn't work in Waterloo...you know...such a different place.

Yeah, I'm sure there was limited space, but the narrow strip of pavement isn't great for a floating bus stop, but it's nice to see them trying at least. What bugs me about this kind of thing is that it will pit transit riders (and especially those with disabilities) against cyclists.

[danbrotherston]

A surprisingly to the point article from D'Amato...she mostly quotes Jeff Casello who has some pretty good ideas.

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...safer.html

I'm a little disappointed that he talks about "education" given that we've been educating for years. It's doubly disappointing when he (or D'Amato) puts the responsibility on pedestrians--who usually aren't at fault in collisions at roundabouts...but that is in line with the car primacy beliefs in the region. I haven't necessarily felt that the Dutch are as frank as they are portrayed, but it's something I really wish we were more. I'm so sick and tired of the pandering to fragile people. No...DRIVERS are the ones who bear the responsibility for being safe on our roads. But apparently this is as hard for people to say as it is for our medical professionals to say "wear a mask" or even "COVID is bad".

FWIW there's an excellent discussion here as well:

https://thewaroncars.org/2022/12/27/rere...ie-singer/

[the_conestoga_guy]

A surprisingly to the point article from D'Amato...she mostly quotes Jeff Casello who has some pretty good ideas.

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...safer.html

I'm a little disappointed that he talks about "education" given that we've been educating for years. It's doubly disappointing when he (or D'Amato) puts the responsibility on pedestrians--who usually aren't at fault in collisions at roundabouts...but that is in line with the car primacy beliefs in the region. I haven't necessarily felt that the Dutch are as frank as they are portrayed, but it's something I really wish we were more. I'm so sick and tired of the pandering to fragile people. No...DRIVERS are the ones who bear the responsibility for being safe on our roads. But apparently this is as hard for people to say as it is for our medical professionals to say "wear a mask" or even "COVID is bad".

FWIW there's an excellent discussion here as well:

https://thewaroncars.org/2022/12/27/rere...ie-singer/

Thanks for the resource, Dan.

Do you know of any other resources that may have been created that could help us retrofit our existing roundabouts to be more active transportation friendly? I feel like installing button activated flashers would be an easy win, but I'm not an expert in this topic so I'm likely not seeing some other possible solutions.

[bravado]

There are a few ideas that we can steal from Europe:

1: Raised crosswalks that act as a speedbump and force people to slow down and subconsciously give priority to non-cars

2: Tighter exit turns, our roundabouts are particularly bad at this in order to prioritize vehicles (example). Our exits from roundabouts are almost straight and encourage you to speed when leaving the circle.

3: Signals for both cars and non-cars, prioritizing non-cars

As usual, it’s shameful that normal citizens have to come up with this shit instead of the engineers and planners that we pay a lot of money for.

[ijmorlan]

There are a few ideas that we can steal from Europe:

1: Raised crosswalks that act as a speedbump and force people to slow down and subconsciously give priority to non-cars

2: Tighter exit turns, our roundabouts are particularly bad at this in order to prioritize vehicles (example). Our exits from roundabouts are almost straight and encourage you to speed when leaving the circle.

[…]

Great ideas! I agree that raised crosswalks are a great idea. Anywhere cars shouldn’t be travelling quickly anyway there is no reason why the surface has to be completely flat.

I also like the idea of doing something about roundabout exits. They are the part I worry the most about. As a driver, on entering the roundabout I’m naturally looking very carefully for both motor vehicle traffic and pedestrians crossing; but on exiting I feel like I got through it and am just continuing on my way. For me checking for pedestrians crossing the exit of the roundabout feels like an extra step; I make sure to do it because I have a responsibility to everybody, not just other drivers, but I feel like if I lost concentration for a moment that is where I would make a mistake.

[danbrotherston]

Yeah, bravado has some great ideas there.

I wrote an extended twitter thread about the differences between NA and NL roundabouts...it covers a lot of the same points, unfortunately I cannot find it now. Which is a shame...I was going to make it a blog post.

You'll just have to be satisfied with this gem:

https://twitter.com/danbrotherston/statu...2980557825

(As an aside...twitter search is garbage...but it seems like parts of twitter are starting to break now).

[plam]

There are a few ideas that we can steal from Europe:

1: Raised crosswalks that act as a speedbump and force people to slow down and subconsciously give priority to non-cars

2: Tighter exit turns, our roundabouts are particularly bad at this in order to prioritize vehicles (example). Our exits from roundabouts are almost straight and encourage you to speed when leaving the circle.

3: Signals for both cars and non-cars, prioritizing non-cars

As usual, it’s shameful that normal citizens have to come up with this shit instead of the engineers and planners that we pay a lot of money for.

NZ is great but also suffers from car primacy, especially outside of Wellington. The thing that is completely bonkers is that there are raised crosswalks that are also signed "pedestrians give way". WTF?!

I haven't actually thought about exit turns from NZ roundabouts. I think they're not straight lines. Sometimes people signal their exits, suggesting it's not a straight line.

Not a fan of beg buttons on roundabouts. Would be better to have people detectors and signals.

(Off topic: I just wrote thoughts on Can't Get There From Here: New Zealand Passenger Rail since 1920, at https://patricklam.ca/post/20230107-cant...from-here/. Here I am sitting in a taxi on the 401 from Pearson because I'm not up for complicated transit things after 24 hours in a plane.)

[danbrotherston]

There are a few ideas that we can steal from Europe:

1: Raised crosswalks that act as a speedbump and force people to slow down and subconsciously give priority to non-cars

2: Tighter exit turns, our roundabouts are particularly bad at this in order to prioritize vehicles (example). Our exits from roundabouts are almost straight and encourage you to speed when leaving the circle.

3: Signals for both cars and non-cars, prioritizing non-cars

As usual, it’s shameful that normal citizens have to come up with this shit instead of the engineers and planners that we pay a lot of money for.

NZ is great but also suffers from car primacy, especially outside of Wellington. The thing that is completely bonkers is that there are raised crosswalks that are also signed "pedestrians give way". WTF?!

I haven't actually thought about exit turns from NZ roundabouts. I think they're not straight lines. Sometimes people signal their exits, suggesting it's not a straight line.

Not a fan of beg buttons on roundabouts. Would be better to have people detectors and signals.

(Off topic: I just wrote thoughts on Can't Get There From Here: New Zealand Passenger Rail since 1920, at https://patricklam.ca/post/20230107-cant...from-here/. Here I am sitting in a taxi on the 401 from Pearson because I'm not up for complicated transit things after 24 hours in a plane.)

Yeah, I booked a flight to Toronto with the intention to take transit...only to remember that there is no transit from Toronto to KW on a weekend...and so got to spend 500 on a Toronto hotel.

[Acitta]

NZ is great but also suffers from car primacy, especially outside of Wellington. The thing that is completely bonkers is that there are raised crosswalks that are also signed "pedestrians give way". WTF?!

I haven't actually thought about exit turns from NZ roundabouts. I think they're not straight lines. Sometimes people signal their exits, suggesting it's not a straight line.

Not a fan of beg buttons on roundabouts. Would be better to have people detectors and signals.

(Off topic: I just wrote thoughts on Can't Get There From Here: New Zealand Passenger Rail since 1920, at https://patricklam.ca/post/20230107-cant...from-here/. Here I am sitting in a taxi on the 401 from Pearson because I'm not up for complicated transit things after 24 hours in a plane.)

Yeah, I booked a flight to Toronto with the intention to take transit...only to remember that there is no transit from Toronto to KW on a weekend...and so got to spend 500 on a Toronto hotel.

You could have taken the #40 GO bus from the airport to Square One and the #25 GO bus from there to Kitchener. Not as good as taking the UP Express to the GO train, but it is wrong to say that there is no transit from Toronto to KW on the weekend.

[danbrotherston]

Yeah, I booked a flight to Toronto with the intention to take transit...only to remember that there is no transit from Toronto to KW on a weekend...and so got to spend 500 on a Toronto hotel.

You could have taken the #40 GO bus from the airport to Square One and the #25 GO bus from there to Kitchener. Not as good as taking the UP Express to the GO train, but it is wrong to say that there is no transit from Toronto to KW on the weekend.

Given I'm traveling with a partner, toddler, six bags, and a stroller...no, there was no transit option for me to get from Pearson to KW.

If I was an individual, perhaps that would have been an option (I've done it before), but not with a family.

Perhaps I should have been specific that there was no transit option "for me" but I'm hardly the only family traveling.

Also, I've seen that bus, I've ridden that bus, I'm fairly confident I wouldn't have even been possible to board with all our stuff, it's very crowded most of the time.

And don't get me wrong, I'm a huge proponent of buses, but I also understand their limitations....especially when severely crowded.

[plam]

Yeah, I booked a flight to Toronto with the intention to take transit...only to remember that there is no transit from Toronto to KW on a weekend...and so got to spend 500 on a Toronto hotel.

You could have taken the #40 GO bus from the airport to Square One and the #25 GO bus from there to Kitchener. Not as good as taking the UP Express to the GO train, but it is wrong to say that there is no transit from Toronto to KW on the weekend.

Airways Transit probably still operates but when I was travelling with 2 big bags and 2 small bags yesterday I used Waterloo Taxi ($130 plus [sigh] tip). The GO combination would have taken 2h15, which is fine in some situations, but I figured that after 24 hours of travel it would be nice to not be on the bus for an extra hour. Taxis should be able to accommodate that amount of stuff. Perhaps a minivan taxi.