83-87 Weber St E | 32 fl | Proposed

[ZEBuilder]

This is now approved by council at 32 floors. The 32 floor proposal was supported by all members of council except for Chapman and Councillor Deneault, the initial proposal was supported by everyone except for Councillor Deneault. I didn't watch all of the meeting only the end when the votes and finally discussions were happening so I'm unsure as to why Deneault was against it.

[ac3r]

If Chapman didn't object I'd be a little worried for her.

[ac3r]

The apartment count for this project has been reduced to 423 units.

[SF22]

Part of the problem is the complexity of dealing with zoning. You end up with organizations who essentially are experts in navigating the rezoning process, rather than in actually building housing or other types of development.

Do we expect to see this sort of thing change in the downtown core, with the implementation of Kitchener's Growing Together plan? If there's been a general upgrade to zoning, then we should see less of these 'plan to flip' proposals, right? Or will a bunch of current projects that are working through the process just get immediately approved if the only things holding them up were parking minimums and height concerns?

Vibe might be out of some work, if they suddenly don't need to make paper-thin building proposals in order to sell a property.

[ZEBuilder]

Part of the problem is the complexity of dealing with zoning. You end up with organizations who essentially are experts in navigating the rezoning process, rather than in actually building housing or other types of development.

Do we expect to see this sort of thing change in the downtown core, with the implementation of Kitchener's Growing Together plan? If there's been a general upgrade to zoning, then we should see less of these 'plan to flip' proposals, right? Or will a bunch of current projects that are working through the process just get immediately approved if the only things holding them up were parking minimums and height concerns?

Vibe might be out of some work, if they suddenly don't need to make paper-thin building proposals in order to sell a property.

It is a lot of general up zoning but they also introduced new built form restrictions, so in this case we might start to see less OPA/ZBA applications and more CoA applications purely because the changes that are required are considered minor amendments. There are still going to be some cases that would require OPA/ZBA however and there is still developers who are going to need OPA/ZBA to change zoning from something like SGA-2 to SGA-3 or SGA-3 to SGA-4. It certainly makes Vive's life easier for some projects because there is so much up zoning that happened, however they introduced clauses such that the existing ZBA/OPA approvals will expire after a few years (I don't remember the exact number). So developers might actually start on their pile of projects.

[SF22]

Looking at the Weber/Scott corner, with Civic 66 and the Scott now built and operational, I can see the potential for sections of Weber to transform into something a little less inhospitable for pedestrians. Right now, the sidewalks here directly abut the street, but both the new buildings are set back fairly far from the road. Civic has installed what is essentially an extra-wide sidewalk on their side (bless them), and Scott has left room for the region to do the same if they wanted to move some traffic poles around. If we keep seeing this block get turned over into new mid-rise buildings, we could get those extra couple of metres on each side to make wider sidewalks and maybe even plant some trees for shade and to make the road seem less wide (dream big, friends).

I'm pretty sure the block of properties at Weber/Cedar got sold a year+ ago, and combined with 83-87 Weber and the Scott, that would be over half the block turned over (all but three properties). Can't say I would have put my money on that, 5 years ago.

[SF22]

Do we expect to see this sort of thing change in the downtown core, with the implementation of Kitchener's Growing Together plan? If there's been a general upgrade to zoning, then we should see less of these 'plan to flip' proposals, right? Or will a bunch of current projects that are working through the process just get immediately approved if the only things holding them up were parking minimums and height concerns?

Vibe might be out of some work, if they suddenly don't need to make paper-thin building proposals in order to sell a property.

It is a lot of general up zoning but they also introduced new built form restrictions, so in this case we might start to see less OPA/ZBA applications and more CoA applications purely because the changes that are required are considered minor amendments. There are still going to be some cases that would require OPA/ZBA however and there is still developers who are going to need OPA/ZBA to change zoning from something like SGA-2 to SGA-3 or SGA-3 to SGA-4. It certainly makes Vive's life easier for some projects because there is so much up zoning that happened, however they introduced clauses such that the existing ZBA/OPA approvals will expire after a few years (I don't remember the exact number). So developers might actually start on their pile of projects.

I appreciate the insight! It's so much legal red tape to learn about and understand.

[ijmorlan]

Part of the problem is the complexity of dealing with zoning. You end up with organizations who essentially are experts in navigating the rezoning process, rather than in actually building housing or other types of development.

Do we expect to see this sort of thing change in the downtown core, with the implementation of Kitchener's Growing Together plan? If there's been a general upgrade to zoning, then we should see less of these 'plan to flip' proposals, right? Or will a bunch of current projects that are working through the process just get immediately approved if the only things holding them up were parking minimums and height concerns?

Vibe might be out of some work, if they suddenly don't need to make paper-thin building proposals in order to sell a property.

We can hope! Now if Ford can just give his head a shake, do another U-turn, and proceed with legalizing 4-plexes everywhere, we might have something.

[ZEBuilder]

It is a lot of general up zoning but they also introduced new built form restrictions, so in this case we might start to see less OPA/ZBA applications and more CoA applications purely because the changes that are required are considered minor amendments. There are still going to be some cases that would require OPA/ZBA however and there is still developers who are going to need OPA/ZBA to change zoning from something like SGA-2 to SGA-3 or SGA-3 to SGA-4. It certainly makes Vive's life easier for some projects because there is so much up zoning that happened, however they introduced clauses such that the existing ZBA/OPA approvals will expire after a few years (I don't remember the exact number). So developers might actually start on their pile of projects.

I appreciate the insight! It's so much legal red tape to learn about and understand.

I went back and looked but every ZBA/OPA application that's been approved expires 10 years after Growing Together goes into place so in this case 2034. 

In DSD-2024-005 they have a diagram that shows all the possibilities to switch between zones and change various restrictions, so we'll still see ZBAs/OPAs since 1/4 of the MTSAs have no height restrictions. Here's that diagram.