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Winter Walking and Cycling
Can someone please refresh my memory as to where the $26 per household comes from and what level of clearing that would afford?
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(06-26-2018, 10:44 AM)jamincan Wrote: - people have 18 hours to clear sidewalk once snow has accumulated 2.5 cm, or after snow has stopped, whichever comes first.
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I keep seeing a number of $26 per household for the city to take over sidewalk clearing. Where did THAT number come from and what level of clearing would THAT cover!
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(06-26-2018, 12:24 PM)creative Wrote: I keep seeing a number of $26 per household for the city to take over sidewalk clearing. Where did THAT number come from and what level of clearing would THAT cover!

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/700...is-winter/

That was a year and a half ago. With inflation it could be $28 or $29 now. Still a bargain in my opinion.
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(06-26-2018, 12:52 PM)bpoland Wrote:
(06-26-2018, 12:24 PM)creative Wrote: I keep seeing a number of $26 per household for the city to take over sidewalk clearing. Where did THAT number come from and what level of clearing would THAT cover!

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/700...is-winter/

That was a year and a half ago.  With inflation it could be $28 or $29 now.  Still a bargain in my opinion.

Staff *think* it would cover a LOS the same as what the city already provides for the existing city cleared sidewalks. They got to this by extrapolating from their existing clearing program, but they don't have a lot of confidence in how this would work on the whole city.

One of the things this study would have answered is exactly what that looks like in terms of level of service at a larger (and less sporadic) scale, and what the actual cost would be.

Of course, since the very idea of answering those questions has been rejected by council, we won't have any real idea.
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Would simply allowing Bylaw to enforce the current policy without requiring a formal complaint help? Just allow Bylaw to stop at offenders houses during their normal work once the 24 hours has elapsed. They can determine on site if a property is outside of the rule and they can call the city for cleaning on the spot.

I'm not suggesting they drive around looking for offenders, only that if the see something during the normal course of their day.
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(06-26-2018, 01:41 PM)Chris Wrote: Would simply allowing Bylaw to enforce the current policy without requiring a formal complaint help? Just allow Bylaw to stop at offenders houses during their normal work once the 24 hours has elapsed. They can determine on site if a property is outside of the rule and they can call the city for cleaning on the spot.

I'm not suggesting they drive around looking for offenders, only that if the see something during the normal course of their day.

No, that would not help.

Also, that's less than what was even approved at the meeting.

Approved at the meeting: hiring a bylaw officer to test out the idea of pro-active enforcement, i.e., they drive around looking for offenders.

It doesn't work, because the bylaw is fundamentally weak.  This is Canada, 24 hours "after the end of snowfall" is often times more than a week after sidewalks first became impassable.

We wouldn't stand for roads that are impassable for a week at a time.
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(06-26-2018, 10:24 AM)creative Wrote: Please reread my post before you jump all over me. I said "Focus your energy on changing the law and improving the enforcement". Those that clear their sidewalks are not the villan. Those that choose to not do so should suffer the pain of not doing so.

I read your post again, and it still says “The silent majority, who clear their sidewalks promptly, are against the city clearing sidewalks.” And I still haven’t seen any evidence that this is the case. Of course some people are against the city clearing sidewalks, but a “silent majority”? Not clear at all. And even if it’s true, the city should have run their test project to gather evidence which might affect the opinions of people, both on and off Council, with many differing current perspectives.
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(06-26-2018, 09:53 AM)creative Wrote: The silent majority, who clear their sidewalks promptly, are against the city clearing sidewalks. They are not against clear sidewalks. Don't give up on the issue entirely because your solution was not chosen. 

It's not that "my solution" wasn't chosen. The majority of the councilors refused to even study the options to determine which one might work the best. This is refusal to change, plain and simple.
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I don't think the minutes are up, but am I correct in understanding the only people who opposed Galloway-Sealock's motion (and therefore supported the Committee recommendation) were Marsh, Fernandes and Vrbanovic? I want to send an e-mail to the mayor and my councillor - there is an election coming up - but I want to make sure that I am clear what position they actually supported.

It sounded like Marsh suggested pretty much exactly what I suggested as a tighter implementation of the by-law standards. City staff didn't seem clear on whether there would be an issue with that or not.
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(06-26-2018, 02:51 PM)jamincan Wrote: I don't think the minutes are up, but am I correct in understanding the only people who opposed Galloway-Sealock's motion (and therefore supported the Committee recommendation) were Marsh, Fernandes and Vrbanovic? I want to send an e-mail to the mayor and my councillor - there is an election coming up - but I want to make sure that I am clear what position they actually supported.

It sounded like Marsh suggested pretty much exactly what I suggested as a tighter implementation of the by-law standards. City staff didn't seem clear on whether there would be an issue with that or not.

Councillor Gazola also opposed Councillor Galloway-Sealock's motion.

I don't think anyone actually suggested a tighter implementation, there were questions to staff on exactly what the bylaw required, and staff clarified that yes, they only enforce the bylaw after 24 hours of no snow.  Staff mentioned that there were changes to the bylaw in previous years (I believe the change was that they would take a complaint before the 24 hours, but not investigate it), but that council declined to adopt further changes.
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(06-26-2018, 03:09 PM)Chicopee Wrote:
(06-26-2018, 02:51 PM)jamincan Wrote: I don't think the minutes are up, but am I correct in understanding the only people who opposed Galloway-Sealock's motion (and therefore supported the Committee recommendation) were Marsh, Fernandes and Vrbanovic? I want to send an e-mail to the mayor and my councillor - there is an election coming up - but I want to make sure that I am clear what position they actually supported.

It sounded like Marsh suggested pretty much exactly what I suggested as a tighter implementation of the by-law standards. City staff didn't seem clear on whether there would be an issue with that or not.

http://www.tritag.ca/blog/2015/02/23/wha...-clearing/

The most interesting of the responses there is probably Paul Singh, who explicitly stated the need for most study of the cost implications, and yet yesterday voted against that very study.

Etherington (my councillor) also directly contradicted his statements here.
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(06-26-2018, 03:07 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I don't think anyone actually suggested a tighter implementation, there were questions to staff on exactly what the bylaw required, and staff clarified that yes, they only enforce the bylaw after 24 hours of no snow.  Staff mentioned that there were changes to the bylaw in previous years (I believe the change was that they would take a complaint before the 24 hours, but not investigate it), but that council declined to adopt further changes.

I found the moment - 5:19:30 in the video of the meeting. It sounds like staff is going to have to research the past decision council made and then report on the viability of Marsh's suggestion. I'm not too well-versed on council procedure, but I think I got it right? Hopefully a change can be made to close the loop hole that allows the clock to reset repeatedly.
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Maybe if we can get enough complaints filed next winter they will realize that there is a real problem.
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I really hope that is not what happens. I shovel my driveway and the sidewalk as much as I can but I hate the thought of people running around calling stuff in "to make a point" and then I get caught on the one day I didn't make it out there 3 seconds after the snow stopped falling.
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